Guess this grade

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by rlm's cents, Jun 4, 2010.

?

Guess the grade 1912-S

  1. AU-55

    1 vote(s)
    2.7%

  2. AU-58

    14 vote(s)
    37.8%

  3. MS-61

    5 vote(s)
    13.5%

  4. MS-62

    10 vote(s)
    27.0%

  5. MS-63

    7 vote(s)
    18.9%

  6. MS-64

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Page 2 of 3
  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No, it isn't possible. The zinc plate sits in a table that spins the plate at a high rate of speed. The die is held in something like a drill press and lowered down to the spinning plate.

    You ever tried to hold a piece of metal against a grinding wheel by hand ? It can't be done, not without bracing the metal against the edge of the gaurd anyway.

    Dies are not held by hand and polished. It's a machine.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 5, 2010
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    OK, now look closely at those lines. The only reason they exist in that placement is because those portions of the devices are so shallow to begin with that they nearly meet the level of the fields. And with sufficient polishing, they do in fact meet the level of the fields.

    That's why the lines only show up right there and not any place else on the wing.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 5, 2010
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    As best I can make out, the lines you reference on the 12-S are in the same position (relative to the device) as those lines are on the 22-D. The original red makes the nose and forehead look larger than they really are.
     
    rlm's cents, Jun 5, 2010
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I have to disagree Dick, there's not even any comparison between the two.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 5, 2010
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. d.t.menace

    d.t.menace Member

    I was under the impression that it was worn dies that caused those lines. Not sure where I got that from but here's another example.
     

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    d.t.menace, Jun 5, 2010
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree because that is what I am seeing.
     
    rlm's cents, Jun 5, 2010
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    As seen side by side - as I said, no comparison. In the one image the lines stop at the edge of the device, in the other they are clearly on the device.
     

    Attached Files:

    GDJMSP, Jun 5, 2010
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Those are flow lines that were not polished out, Different cause, different thing entirely. But they do look similar.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 5, 2010
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Any more guesses? I will post the answer later today.
     
    rlm's cents, Jun 8, 2010
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. jallengomez

    jallengomez Cessna 152 Jockey

    Tough one...I'll say 63.
     
    jallengomez, Jun 8, 2010
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Doug is right! It is impossible for die polishing lines to show up in the devices. It's possible that you might be confusing die polishing with die cleaning. Sometimes, it is necessary to use a wire brush to clean out debris and grease that accumulates in the devices, but these would be scratches or gouges on the surface of the devices.

    Here is an example of scratches/gouges that resulted from cleaning.

    Chris
     

    Attached Files:

    cpm9ball, Jun 8, 2010
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    Or - those are not the result of cleaning a die with a wire brush, but instead the result of flow lines from very worn die.

    Personally, I have never heard of a wire brush being used to clean a die. Nor can I imagine that anyone would do so precisely because of the resulting damage to the die. Mint workers tended to be very careful with coin dies because of the expense of making them.

    If the marks on rlm's coin were on the rest of the devices instead of just on the edges of the devices then I could agree that they were the result of flow lines.

    But since they only appear on the edges of the devices, I think my idea of the coin being whizzed a long time ago and then toning afterwards and wiping out traces of the whizzing in the fields is much more likely.

    But I freely admit, I can't prove it.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 8, 2010
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. phubanks

    phubanks Junior Member

    i have to admit i am clueless on the grade. if i had to guess i suppose AU58 but 0 confidence in that.

    what's the answer?
     
    phubanks, Jun 8, 2010
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    That went so well, I think I will try a couple more. A penny grading contest? And mine wil all be pennies.

    Anyway, the 12-S was 62RB. The coin has more red in hand than the pictures show, but it is still a push IMHO.
     

    Attached Files:

    rlm's cents, Jun 8, 2010
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. jallengomez

    jallengomez Cessna 152 Jockey

    Keep 'em coming. I learn a lot from these.
     
    jallengomez, Jun 8, 2010
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    As long as there seems to be some interest, I have lots to post.
     
    rlm's cents, Jun 8, 2010
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. jallengomez

    jallengomez Cessna 152 Jockey

    Glad someone has lots! Wouldn't take me long to exhaust all 6 of my slabbed cents. Point me in the direction of a thread on how to photograph them through the plastic and I'll give it a whirl though.
     
    jallengomez, Jun 8, 2010
    #37 + Quote Reply
  19. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    I agree, this is fun and educational...
     
    abe, Jun 8, 2010
    #38 + Quote Reply
  20. financeman

    financeman Lincoln Cent Connoisseur

    I voted au58
     
    financeman, Jun 8, 2010
    #39 + Quote Reply
  21. financeman

    financeman Lincoln Cent Connoisseur

    Wow, I was way off. I went from Guess the grade 3 to 2 to 1. I guess I should go the right way next time. LOL
     
    financeman, Jun 8, 2010
    #40 + Quote Reply
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