Guess the price!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JayAg47, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    Same emperor, same type, but different coins.
    Elagabalus, Summus Sacerdos.
    The top one I bought a couple of months ago to get an example of Elagabalus, the bottom one I bought just for the heck of it!
    8014BA8F-79B7-4894-AC24-4622B8835F43.jpeg
     
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  3. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    I would pay 15 eur for the first and a bit less for the second.
     
  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Perhaps $20-$25 for the first coin, but I wouldn't buy the second coin. Too worn for me at this stage in my collecting endeavors.
     
    Ryro likes this.
  5. tartanhill

    tartanhill Well-Known Member

    When I buy a coin "just for the heck of it", it's usually because I think it's just too cheap to pass up. I am not sure what the cost might have been, but It was probably really, really cheap.
     
  6. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    I wonder where you get denarius for that low! Even a worn coin on Ma-shops/ Vcoins go for 20-30 bucks and a half decent coin like the top one costs around 40-50 dollars!
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  7. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Retail prices for coins are often much higher than auction prices.
     
    Severus Alexander likes this.
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I'm not so sure about that. Not only are the auction prices impacted by people with deep pockets, but add in the buyer's fees and higher shipping prices the retail prices seem rather reasonable in comparison.
     
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  9. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    You are right that auction prices are impacted by people with deep pockets, that is why I said often, and I base this all on my personal experience.
    What does is a fact is that there a lot of dealers participating at auctions to buy their stock. Sometimes I see a coin sell for X price at an auction, and a couple of weeks later I see it appear at VCoins/MA-shops for 2 times the X auction price.
     
  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Every once in a while a cheap Elagabalus denarius comes up on eBay. This is more luck than some consistent "pricing trend" thing.

    I think this is the OP - I paid $20.50 for it:

    Elagabalus - Den. SVMMA SAECR Sep 2017 (0).jpg
    Elagabalus Denarius
    (221-222 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, laureate, & draped bust right / SVMMVS SACERDOS AVG Elagabalus sacrificing left, w. patera & branch over lit altar, star left.
    RIC 146; RSC 276; BMC 232.
    (2.66 grams / 20 mm)

    A couple of other budget Elagabalii from my collection - I paid $9.33 (from a lot)for the top one, $23.96 for the bottom one.

    Elagabalus - Den. SOLIS Feb 2017 (0).jpg


    Elagabalus - Den. SOLwhip Aug 2017 (0).jpg
     
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  11. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    I would happily sell you a hand full of denari in that condition for that price ...

    In Europe, Roman coins may be a bit cheaper than in the US, especially if you are able to buy the coins first-hands (i.e. from metal-detectorists). I've bought two large group lots of denari/antoniani for €350 (for 25 denari, so €14/each, in similar condition as your first coin), and for €750 for 50 denari, so €15 each. There were three or four or your type in those lots, but I have no photo's of all of them - this was one of those:
    upload_2020-10-26_15-38-14.png
     
  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    For what it's worth, I think the first coin in the OP has reasonably strong details on both sides, and perhaps the look of the surfaces suffers from either harsh cleaning or a poor photograph.

    Regarding prices, they're going to be different depending on where you're able or choose to buy from (and whether you're in the market for a single coin or bag lots with a few dozen in them). Maybe we can just say that prices can be all over the place and quit while we're ahead? :D

    $65 for this:
    Elagabalus - Den Invictus Sacerdos 068.jpg

    $70 for this:
    Elagabalus - Ant VICTOR ANTONINI ex Michael Kelly 2994.JPG
     
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  13. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Nice coins everyone
     
  14. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    one difference though, is that your coin does not have the "horned" bust (or at least not clear) while it looks like OP coins, at least bottom example, do have it.
     
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  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    We have to realize that there is no standardization in ancient coin prices. I buy very few coins from VCoins because most of the dealers there are overpriced compared to other dealers I know from shows. The fact is there are many reasonable VCoins dealers as well as the higher priced bunch --- just like on eBay or at shows. I would buy neither coin for the price quoted simply because I prefer better surfaces. Opinions on what makes a pleasing coin varies. I agree there is a 'horned' tax and I would not have paid this much for most types or one with a weaker horn.
    $49
    rn0040bb0247.jpg

    I value the one below higher since it includes ELAGAB in the reverse legend making it worth the $50 I paid.
    rn0152bb2783.jpg

    I sold this one to someone and kept the one with some tone. I suspect many people here would have made the opposite choice. While I am no fan of bright and shiny coins, I also preferred the reverse style. This one was also $50 a few years earlier than the toned one. Does someone here now own this last one?
    rn0150zz1741.jpg
     
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  16. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Man, I wanted one of these "horned" Elagabalus for a long time. Best of the bull baby ;)
    But you all over paid. Last year's wonderful Saturnalia Santa knew just what I needed:
    share3688383266280600939.png
    ELAGABALUS" (16/05 / 218-12 / 03/222)
    Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
    Denarius 222 CE, Mint Rome 19mm, 12h.
    2.76 gr. Degree of rarity: R1
    RCV.7518 - RIC.88 var. - Th.258 - RSC.61 b - RCV.7518
    Obverse: IMP ANTONINVS - PIVS AVG. Bearded bust, laureate and draped Elagabal right, seen three quarters forward, horned (A * 01).Elke Kringel hypothesised the "horn" is actually a bulls phallus!
    Reverse: INVICTVS SACERDOS AVG / * | -. (The Invincible Priest of the Emperor).
    Elagabal laureate and draper standing upright turned left, holding a cypress branch turned upwards with the left hand and a peg with his right hand, sacrificing above an altar lit; Behind the altar, the remains of the ox.
    History: Elagabal, proclaimed Emperor May 16, 218, only august before the end of June or early July, leaves Syria to reach Rome. Elagabal stops at Nicomedia, he stays there all winter and gets sick. It is in this city that he dons his second consulate. Elagabal will not arrive in Rome until July or September 219, bringing the black stone of his cult to install it in his capital. He will never return to Syria, quickly murdered after a reign unequaled in turpitudes and disturbances.

    (man, I hope we have Secret Saturnalia this year:woot:. Does anyone know if we will or if I can help facilitate one? @John Anthony or @Curtisimo ?)

    Ps, do what's the answer? How much did you pay @JayAg47 ?
     
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  17. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    I wonder if there should be guidelines on the value of coins gifted. Last year a lot of the coins later shown here as gifts were well over $50 coins, and that makes me think collectors of modest means might hesitate to participate.
     
  18. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what I paid for this coin as it came in a large mixed lot of coins @ an average of $31 per coin.

    I think it to be a fairly decent portrait.
    Elagabalus5.png
    Elagabalus. AD 218-222. AR Denarius. Rome mint. Struck AD 221.
    O: IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, Laureate and draped bust right, horned
    R: P M TR P IIII COS III P P, Elagabalus standing left, holding cypress branch and sacrificing with patera over lighted altar to left; star to left.
    RIC IV 46
     
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  19. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    This one cost me $49 in an FSR auction. It's a rare variety to boot (RIC 87).

    Screen Shot 2020-10-26 at 1.20.28 PM.jpg

    If you're willing to wait, and you cast your auction net widely, it's almost always possible to find a coin at auction far more cheaply than at retail sites like VCoins. The only time I pay full retail is if I'm unlikely to see a similar coin again within a decade.
     
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  20. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    Vcoins is not a retail site, rather it is a conglomeration of retail sites with a very large variety of ancient coins with prices for any budget. At some point, when you are collecting ancients, you might actually find it is helpful to support a dealer. At the end of the day, Vcoins is a service.
     
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  21. cmezner

    cmezner Supporter! Supporter

    Mine is without the horn. At numismatics.org it says "usually horned" implying that the one's without horn are the same RIC number.
    http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.el.88b

    It has a double strike error (Fr. Tréflag; trefoil) on the reverse. One can see part of the pearled border perpendicular to where it should have been struck. This happens when a minted coin is struck again or even several times by the dies before it has left the coining press completely resulting in a partial impression of the coin over the previously struck image. Double struck ancient coins are fairly common. They were hand struck without any collar holding the coin in place so the coin could easily move when being struck and quality control wasn't so strict so the coin made it into circulation. They are interesting as an oddity but don't command any additional value.

    AR Denarius, Rome, 220 - 222 AD
    17 mm, 3.427 g
    RIC IV Elagabalus 88b; Cohen 61; Sear 7518; BMC.212;

    Ob.: IMP ANTONINVS PI(V)S AVG Laureate and draped bust right
    Rev.: INVIC(T)VS SACERDOS A(VG),Elagabalus standing l., sacrificing over altar, holding patera in r. hand and club in l., bull lying down behind altar; in left field star
    upload_2020-10-26_16-10-1.png upload_2020-10-26_16-10-32.png
     
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