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Message:: [QUOTE="Bedford, post: 1584264, member: 4917"]No you said it was a MS coin with probelms. So now you are saying it is a proof as I have proven ? Id call that a contadiction. I never said  anything besides that it was a proof & that I believe it will grade as a problem free proof & that NCG had messed up. I did say that it has hairlines ,but I believe that those are not from a harsh cleaning as I stated before. A PF65 ?, the coin will never be that high of a grade . It will be a 62 of 63 because of the hairlines .Why not show some pics of a PF62 or PF63 ,I know why because 90% wont fit your argument.Was the coin dipped ? Who knows it has just as good of a possibility that it has not as it has been. Just because you posted an example of a coin with tone that has a cameo contrast means nothing . In fact there are quite a bit more that look like the coin I posted that the one you did to try to validate your point. Ill say this dipping is an accepted practice ,even PGCS will do it for you . So dont kid your self that coins are not dipped & certified, it is an acceptible form of cleaning ,conservation , what ever you want to classify it as especially with old proofs. Im not sure what you are trying to win here ,youre beating your chest once again against a consensus of most here that it is a proof & will be certified as such .[/QUOTE]