Guess the grade, my latest Morgan Dollar.

It isn't a "count the bag marks" situation. One must take the series into consideration. When one speaks of the Morgan dollar, bag marks are a "way of life" for so many uncirculated Morgans, due to their size and the methods of storage of the coins. Contact is inevitable, and it is rather different from other coins, that have been in rolls, primarily. If you look at a Morgan dollar, you can't just simply count the bag marks, and grade it. So many other factors are included, such as luster, strike, total surface preservation, the positioning of the bag marks (are they in a critical position that would significantly hamper grade). An example of this would be a deep, prominent bag mark across the cheek, or a slash type of mark on the neck. Those would or should significantly influence grade, whereas bag mark chatter in the fields or in the middle of the devices that are light are a fact of Morgan collecting. Same holds true for many gold coins, given the softness of the metal.

Thus, it is difficult to assign a grade depending upon marks, unless said marks are prominent, severe, or heavy. Obviously, the coin would be graded (or, for that matter not graded as damaged) depending on frequency, severity, and position of contact marks on an uncirculated coin.

 

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Don't TPG actual graders use a 5x glass ?

 

I think that's one of those Unwritten Rules (thanks, Larry David ) and I agree with you, MD.

Still....if we take bag marks as a way of life on Morgans and Saints, why not Caped Busts or other coins. See my point ?

2 Morgans....same luster....one has a dozen or so bag marks and is in the MS-65 or MS-66 range....the other has only 1 or 2 bag marks but has a 'gash' from being dropped or some other impact.

How do you rate them ?

Suppose the gash is in a field on the reverse away from the devices ? OTOH, what if it's on the obverse right across Lady Liberty's face ?

I agree these are common-sense things but they have NEVER been quantified, especially the bag mark hits.

100% agree, MD.

Again, we are in agreement.

Gotcha.....!

 

Graded by NGC and I paid $151.00.

 

5x is still less than what we see in a photo.

Chris

 

When TPG grade a coin, luster and mint bloom counts most. Luster is the important factor for eye appeal.
Imo a bagmark or two more does not mean a ""broken leg"".I don' t want a dull, lifeless coin, even with no bagmarks.

 

If you paid that much I would think it resides in an MS-65 slab. I don't think a lot of the marks we see in the original photo are on the coin, but I could be wrong.

 

Yes, although most of the time you would NOT find a coin with tons of bagmarks AND lots of luster. Bag marks would indicate lots of wear-and-tear and the luster would be gone.

That's why I asked about quantifying this in the rare case when you see a coin that may have actually circulated but too no damage and has the luster still there (if you could actually verify a coin as such). Technically, it should be AU rated but what if it were theoretically nicer/better than an uncirculated MS coin.

 

Drumroll!!!!!

NGC MS-65. It seems the pictures are bright and with lots of detail. It does not look nearly as bad in hand. Graysheet was $180 so I thought $151 was a fair price.

 

Bag marks are NOT wear--they are storage contact marks. There is a crucial difference between the two. Bag marks can still be an uncirculated coin, whereas wear is not an uncirculated coin.

 

Got it.....you would think any mark would count the same, regardless of where/how it came about, but I guess not.

 

Now that's scary...I actually got it right !!

Someone check the temperature in Hell and see if it's like the cold in NY.........

 

I tend to only buy ms65 on Morgans. If I can find one under $200 that is a relatively good price I'll bite. With Morgans I go quality over quantity.

 

Agreed....for some of the commons, what do you think about 'paying up' for MS-66's and/or MS'67's, with or without CAC endorsements.

How much of a premium for the most common MSDs are we talking about to go up 1 or 2 grades (and with CAC) ?

 

Haven't barked up that tree yet. I notice that MS62-64 tend to be priced way over graysheet while I can find common MS65 at or below. I'd love to upgrade to 66's or 67's when money permits. Maybe one here and there every a couple times a year. That's the most I could possibly afford for now.

 

If you can define a "bag mark", they can give you an answer. You need to tell them how long. how wide, how deep, and where it is. All make a difference.

The answer is yes, but again it depends on qualifying both.

Again the answer is yes, but this time it depends on the series to some extent. Try looking at this thread https://www.cointalk.com/threads/not-all-nicks-are-created-equal.190680/

 

Man the luster must be BOOMING on this coin!! I just dont see an ms65 here... this is why i prefer anacs over ngc when it comes to morgans... not always but generally speaking..

 

Anyplace to see the Gray Sheet online somewhere for free ?

 

Not the greysheet but numismedia is free and pert near the grey sheet pricewise

 

Pretty coin there, Joe. I like her for MS64 money, too. I'm a sucker for that luster.