Guess the Grade - Morgan - Photo & Video

Hey all,

Let's try something a bit different. This guess the grade will feature both a photo and a video.
Please use the poll and add any comments you might have.

Video:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4i_2aCgdMk/

Image:

 

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Obverse 'washed out' completely. Can make no determination of the grade by this aspect.

The video of the reverse is quite more indicative as to what this coin might grade out as. Proof like tendencies, lovely 'cartwheel' effect.........I'd go with '64 without seeing what the obverse has to offer.

 

The link to the video has both the reverse and obverse.
Please use the arrow on the side to scroll to the obverse video.
The picture below shows where to find the arrow in the linked video.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4i_2aCgdMk/

 

Stand pat at '64, but it really does appear 'proof like'.

 

I'm af 64 but it appears to be AT.

 

The reed marks are on the obverse would indicate an MS63 grade but the quality of the reverse is good enough to bring the coin up to MS64.

 

I voted 64. Would've gone higher but the nick by the nose and the reed marks on the cheek are noticeable. Also QT. I'd say PL but don't know if it can be that and QT at the same time.

 

ms63

 

64 but can't tell if it's AT or not.

 

You guys need to stop, this coin is not artificially toned. The toning pattern is quintessential bag toning, the color progression is correct, the elevation chromatics are outstanding, the toning breaks are nearly impossible to fake, and the word "STATES" shows pull-away toning. Every single indicator on this coin points towards natural toning.

 

This is how we learn. Your post explaining the toning pattern and progression teaches all of us that don't have the experience that you do. Thank you.

 

63

 

I voted 65 and think it was market graded.

@Lehigh96 said it best in regard to the toning being natural.

Personally I would like it better as a NGC 64* with reverse displayed out front.

 

Would you say reed marks should lower the grade in all cases for Morgans? Or are some acceptable (maybe depending on location)?

For example, should the first coin pictured in the thread below be lower than 67 based on the reed marks under Pluribus?
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/interesting-finds-aka-where-the-67s-are-from.342300/

 

And for those wondering, the above is a great explanation why the color is natural.

 

Bag marks can lower the grade for all Morgans but the location of the marks is important too. These are on the relief, cheek and chin, but not too distracting. I went with MS63. Could be a MS64 but difficult to know - the reverse toning and colors can cover marks or issues and we are guessing the grade from pictures, not with the coin in hand.

The reverse is stunning.

 

66

 

I was going to submit 63 went and looked at the obverse video and went 64 even with those marks and the toning helped.If the obverse was cleaner and not much 65/66?

 

I don’t differentiate between reed marks or a regular bag mark, but yes, they should always negative impact the grade of the coin. The only question is “how much?” Obviously, Marks on the focal area (cheek) are gonna have much bigger effect than marks in the fields near the peripheral lettering.

However, I am going to say something that might be very unpopular with Cointalk members. Marks that exist in heavily toned areas appear less prominent and as a result will often have a lesser effect than similar marks found in untoned areas. This was the original purpose of artificial toning, to hide problems such as cleaning, tooling etc. or to hide marks in an attempt to raise the grade. Once people started paying huge premiums for attractive rainbow toning and the doctors tried to replicate it, the artificial toning used to hide problems became known as Type 1 AT.

So imagine the coin in question in this thread. The reed marks are a problem because they are very noticeable on the untoned focal area, but imagine if the toning that exists on the reverse was on the obverse instead. I submit that the coin would most likely have a higher grade. I have the coin graded MS64 with an outside chance at MS65, but if the toning was on the obverse it would be a no brainer MS65 with a shot at MS66.