Guess the grade #60

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by rlm's cents, Aug 23, 2010.

?

1954-S NGC Grade?

Poll closed Aug 27, 2010.

  1. 63

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. 64

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%

  3. 65

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%

  4. 66

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%

  5. 67

    8 vote(s)
    42.1%

  6. 68

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
Page 2 of 3
  1. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    It was no that easy to catch because the coin is deep in the slab, but I think this shows it. As best I can tell, it is the same as the 53-D (http://www.cointalk.com/t122882/) except the "scratch lines" are more muted here. So far as I can tell, all of these lines are raised on both coins.

    BTW, Doug, I did not email Mike. I saw him online here and PM'ed him.
     

    Attached Files:

    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    67 based on luster....it should only be a 66 with that obverse hit though.
     
    BadThad, Aug 24, 2010
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    I never gave the grade. :)
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    That is 100% die errosion and not PMD.
     
    BadThad, Aug 24, 2010
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Hmmmm.... Kind of rules out post-mint damage, doesn't it. ;)
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    RLM, Thanks for the photo and confirmation of the excuse nature of this feature. But how about a closeup of this area on coin #45? Thanks in advance...Mike
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But you cannot have raised lines unless you also have low areas (incuse) in between those lines. That is what defines the lines afterall.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Now you're just being difficult. :)

    They will not be incuse relative to the level of the fields, if we are to deduce they are as-struck die deterioration as I suggest.

    The fact that RLM confirmed they are excuse (i.e. raised) confirmed them as as-struck.
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    In this case I read "incused" to mean below the normal plane/field.
     
    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No, I'm being honest. You can't have one without the other.

    And when you, or rlm, can explain to me how it is possible to have flow lines run at an angle to the center of the coin - then, and only then will I maybe agree with you. Until then - forget it.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    So do I.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Sorry, but from what I see they are all raised. Just like die scratches. There is not an area incused next to each raised die scratch.
     
    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Here is the same area on the 53-D
     

    Attached Files:

    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Help me out here. I'm confused. Which coin's (flow) lines are running at an angle?
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Thanks for the pics RLM. :)
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 24, 2010
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The one in #45.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    For the sake of clarity - regarding the coin in this thread, I agree. As I said I believe they are flow lines.

    It was only the coin in your #45 thread that I believe were post strike.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #37 + Quote Reply
  19. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Now you need to help me out. Just where are these lines "at an angle"?
     
    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #38 + Quote Reply
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I couldn't quite get the drawn lines at the correct angle (not that good free hand) but they are close. The red line indicates the approximate angle of the marks on the coin (especially aboive the P L U) and the black line indicates roughly the angle that flow lines in the same location should be at since flow lines are always radial to the center of the coin.
     

    Attached Files:

    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2010
    #39 + Quote Reply
  21. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    I am sure you are going to disagree somehow again, but the lines are pretty much following your black line. The only minor exception is right at the "P". I attribute that deviation to the curvature of the "P" interrupting the flow. My pictures do not seen as sharp today for some reason, but if you look closely on the new pictures below, you can see the lines really are radial. And that is the way they are in hand. Just in case anyone is confused, these pictures are the 53-D from #45 and not the 54-S in this thread.

    Again and still, I am ABSOLUTELY positive that this area is NOT PMD.
     

    Attached Files:

    rlm's cents, Aug 24, 2010
    #40 + Quote Reply
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