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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Lehigh96, post: 918502, member: 15309&quot;]Earlier in this thread you came right out and said that those marks were not caused by another nickel.&nbsp; Your words, not mine.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I don&#039;t dispute that coins were shoveled or that the process damaged coins.&nbsp; However, it is not a fact that the worst marks on those coins couldn&#039;t have been made by another coin.&nbsp; You are assuming that every coin that falls into the hopper goes in individually at an acceleration caused by gravity.&nbsp; There are countless variables that you are ignoring.&nbsp; You came up with your own theory (scoop shovels).&nbsp; What would happen to a coin when a guy with a scoop shovel throws a shovel full of coins into the bag that already had some coins in it.&nbsp; Wouldn&#039;t the resulting marks be more severe than those caused by a single falling coin into the hopper?</p><p><br /></p><p>It is not a fact that the marks could not have been made by another coin.&nbsp; You are making an assumption without proper evidence in order to bolster your own opinion.&nbsp; I call that saving face, not the truth.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>This has nothing to do with kool-aid.&nbsp; That is purely a spin tactic that you are using to bolster your lone supported opinion.&nbsp; The TPG&#039;s and just about everybody else accepts the fact that the marks are created by other coins.&nbsp; You have convinced yourself that what is generally accepted is impossible.&nbsp; That is the same thing that a conspiracy theorist does.</p><p><br /></p><p>Regarding the grade of the coin.&nbsp; That answer should be simple.&nbsp; I asked last week if a significant mark in the focal area of a coin should prohibit a gem grade.&nbsp; Almost everybody agreed that it should.&nbsp; However, that is not what the TPG&#039;s think.&nbsp; I posted this coin as an example and our membership stayed consistent with their original opinions and only a few gave the coin the MS65 grade.</p><p><br /></p><p>The TPG grade is not wrong per say, but they obviously use a different standard of grading than the Cointalk members.&nbsp; I believe I have established that as a fact at this point.&nbsp; But there you go saying they are wrong once so that means they are wrong again.</p><p><br /></p><p>What you won&#039;t do and haven&#039;t done during this entire conversation is discuss the 1968-S nickel.&nbsp; The marks on that coin are equal in severity to the mark on the 1974.&nbsp; Are all of those marks spread out over the coin in multiple directions shovel marks as well?&nbsp; The reason for your silence is easy to explain.&nbsp; You know that they are not all caused by a shovel but to admit that would hurt your argument so you simply ignore it.</p><p><br /></p><p>I will extend an olive branch in this divide.&nbsp; The largest mark on the 1974 could have been caused by a shovel mark.&nbsp; However, since the severity of the mark is similar to that caused by a coin and the TPG has no way to prove that the mark is a shovel mark, they consider it a typical bag mark.&nbsp; I see nothing wrong with that practice.&nbsp; I believe Mike pointed out that bag marks (made by coins) and shovel marks are both caused by the mint manufacturing process and are not post mint damage.&nbsp; Because the marks are a result of normal production, severity should be the determining factor in the grading process.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now that is just a joke.&nbsp; First, the facts do not support your position.&nbsp; Second, I am not the one who has a reputation on the coin forums for being inflexible and unrelenting.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&amp;threadid=725379&amp;STARTPAGE=6" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&amp;threadid=725379&amp;STARTPAGE=6" rel="nofollow">http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&amp;threadid=725379&amp;STARTPAGE=6</a></p><p><br /></p><p>However, I am willing to admit that I am wrong as long as it is a third party that gets to decide.&nbsp; It is obvious that neither of us is going to change our minds on this issue.&nbsp; Why don&#039;t we have a CT member post a poll on either the CU or CS forum and let them decide?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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