Guess the Grade-----1974 Jefferson Nickel PCGS

Those are probably "hopper" marks, a random coin that got nailed a few times at the bottom of a coin waterfall...you have to remember, these images are what, 50-60 times larger than the normal nickel size, so nicks, scrapes and tics in shadow light look like the Grand Canyon.

 

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Doug,

I hate to tell ya this, but you are just wrong on this one. No other way to say it. Yes those are bag marks, made by regular nickels, and they are commonly found on Jefferson Nickels in the lower mint state grades. It is obvious that you think they are something other than bag marks. But what? What could have cause marks that look identical to bag barks? Perhaps the size of the blown up photo is messing with you. If you compare the size of these marks with the size of severe marks found on Morgan Dollars in the MS60-MS62 range you will find that the proportions are correct.

Now I know you don't believe and are going to need further evidence to convince you. The problem is that you don't find many MS60-MS64 Jefferson Nickels. And while difficult to find, I found another example with the exact same size bag marks graded by PCGS in about 2 mintues. This is the obverse of a 1968-S Jefferson Nickel PCGS MS64.



Are they all damaged Doug?

 

I think that Doug has seen enough Jeffersons to have a perspective on how big those marks are, BR549.

I believe that they are not necessarily damage but also cannot definitively say that they are planchet flaws, bag marks from a B-52, I don't know. I just can't say.

What I can say is that the marks are restricted to an area where it is common to find marks and planchet flaws on a Jefferson.

Do I like this coin? It's not bad. Would I consider it collectible? Yes. Would I categorically dismiss it from the hobby and dispatch it to the vast wasteland of "damaged" coins? Probably not.

 

This coin was minted in 1974 and the planchet flaw problems typically found on Jefferson Nickels in the 40's, 50's, & 60's was a thing of the past. Those are bag marks, plain and simple. And with all due respect, if Doug thinks they are anything else, then he hasn't seen enough Jefferson Nickels.

 

I voted a 63FS cause I do think those marks on the cheek bad enough to warrant bringing it down regardless of the nice reverse. But as Mike said - I wouldn't charge it off to the land of damaged coins either...

 

Sorry Doug, but I dont think that is enough to call it damaged/ungradeable. I would put that is my Jefferson collection if it fit too. Not sure if they are from other nickels or hoppers or or but it's just not enough in my book to call it Ungradeable.

 

Doug,

Do you really want us to believe that the coin was unlucky enough to bear the brunt of a scoop shovel several times before being successfully scooped? What about the 1968-S? Are those scoop shovel marks as well?

You are no where close to reality on this one. I understand your penchant for conservative grading but this is a situation where you are just trying to save face. Your reality is that you are right, and that everybody else including the graders at PCGS are wrong.

 

ok... this is an entirely different argument, but..

Isn't Post-Mint Damage what we refer to as damage? If the coin left the Mint damaged in this way it is still Mint State by definition.

 

I am not convinced that Doug's shovel is correct (nor am I convinced to the contrary), but I am convinced that those marks are not from nickels falling into a hopper. Sorry, but they are just too sharp and do not have the correct arc.

 

This the reason I don't believe you! It is obvious that the one mark is larger than the rest on the 1974. If you were claiming that the one single larger mark was a scoop shovel mark, your argument might have validity. But you are not. You are saying that all of the marks are scoop shovel marks. It seems very obvious to me that they are bag marks. In addition, I posted a similar looking graded MS64 1968-S nickel which you ignored completely. Both coins are shown above.

You are pulling out the wildest scenario possible to explain something that is so common and simple. These two coins either have ordinary everyday bag marks or each was so unlucky as to be brutalized by a scoop shovel and then both won the lottery by escaping detection by PCGS graders ending up with MS65 & MS64 grades respectively. IMO, your explanation is tantamount to a coin grading conspiracy theory.

 

Looks like staple damage to me.

 

Vote submitted!!

 

This is an interesting thread for a number of reasons. Even though I tend to agree with Paul on the discussion, Doug taught me something I didn't know before -- that damage to a coin could occur at the mint post-hopper by shovels or scoops of all things. Not sure how often this actually causes damage and I doubt a scoop made all those marks. Makes me think I need to tour one of the mints -- something I have always wanted to do but I might even learn a few things helpful to my collecting.

Second, I clicked on peoples' votes and see that Paul voted 64FS even though he knew it was 65FS!?! I guess that is what you think PCGS should have graded it, Paul?

 

I'll let you know about the Mint as I have a private tour to visit the floor of them mint coming up!!

 

Sounds good. We expect a full report!

 

No camera's, no phones, no open toed shoes...so the best you'll get it my typing later on how cool it was

 

Ms62-fs