Guess the grade: 1902 Indian Cent Red/Brown

Okay, here's some better photographs to judge:
Okay, so do these photographs help to clarify things?

 

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Am wondering now if there's some wear on the Buffalo's Head or is that due to a problem with the strike? This might really be an AU after all?

 

Is that what the red holder signifies? I don't think it's very transparent to indicate net grading by color only with no comments... If I were buying a coin that had issues I would expect the holder to tell me what those issues are. Unless of course this is like the "market grading" practiced by the top tier TPG's where they lower the grade slightly for small problems not warranting a "details" grade. I'm assuming this FE would not slab problem free at NGC or PCGS?

 

Is that what the red holder signifies? I don't think it's very transparent to indicate net grading by color only with no comments... If I were buying a coin that had issues I would expect the holder to tell me what those issues are. Unless of course this is like the "market grading" practiced by the top tier TPG's where they lower the grade slightly for small problems not warranting a "details" grade. I'm assuming this FE would not slab problem free at NGC or PCGS?

 

The colors of their slabs are: red = copper coin and hard times token, Silver = U.S. silver, Purple = silver dollar, blue = foreign and everything else. This isn't the old PCI system.

 

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. But my question still stands: would the FE slab problem free at NGC or PCGS? One of the most challenging aspects of grading for me is understanding how much damage, cleaning, questionable toning, etc. is considered by TPG's to be "market acceptable". It's definitely subjective.

 

You're right because environment does its damage to coins and depending on circumstances some coins get soiled worse than others.

 

I'm letting the cat out of the bag on this one early. Unless someone cheated (hope not) there was one person who guessed the grade as it was given:

 

Now just like rlm what is your opinion of the coin? Compared to other tpg's - do you think it rates a 64?

 

The coin actually has a nice deep orange natural bright color (like a setting sun), desirable strike and is 100% original (not messed with). It's really a keeper except for the spotting. I've seen PCGS give 64s on rare occasion to Indian Cent coins as spotted as this. I might send this one back to SEGS for reevaluation since it is an old slab. Their older graded coins were more liberally graded.

 

Fair enough. I personally would want to see it in hand - just because of the spottiness. And yes PCGS and NGC get some coins in higher grades that are spotty. Honestly the way the coin looked in the first couple pictures I would have went 62/63 mainly because of the spottiness.

 

If you really want to see the coin in hand (literally) you can always send a Paypal for what I paid for it (which was $71.45) and when you're done just return it and I'll credit your account. Mind you we'd both lose postage doing this but a buck or two isn't going to make or break me. By the way, I agree with you based on your evaluation of this coin. I would grade it between MS-62 and MS-63.

 

Not necessary - I think we are on the same page. You answered my questions and since you have it in hand I will take your word on it. It is still a pretty nice coin.