Guess the Grade 1842 Seated Dollar

And so, Kurt, I pose to you again the question: For everyone else, what would you recommend?

Assume they are willing to learn, but unable to attend some class thousands of miles away. For quite a few people here, the cost of attending the ANA Summer Seminar would be several years of their coin budget, even allowing for your cheap flights and such.

 

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I have never attended a Summer Seminar, but I flew early to an ANA convention site to take the grading course there. Why? Because I could not learn grading to my personal satisfaction ANY OTHER WAY, and I wanted skills I could not adequately acquire any other way.

Summer Seminar is scheduled at incompatible times for my profession these last ten years, but if and when that changes, I WILL be a nearly annual fixture there.

Before I took a formal classroom course, I was UTTERLY HORRIBLE at guessing the grades my TPG submissions would get. Surprises all over the sheet - both directions. Since I took the course, the LARGEST surprise I have gotten is 1 point, ... UP! Exception: there was one Buffnick I sent in, a 1920 Philly, which I guessed as maybe a 55, and it came back a 62, but that's a grading standard change I hadn't read of before that.

 

In the modern era of the internet, how do you propose then we use this tool to communicate and commit commerce? Photographs are essential to trade over the internet, and as technology evolves accurate and adequate photographs gain increasing importance in both forming opinions of coins, and purchasing coins. This site would literally not exist if digital photography did not enable us to evaluate coins, at least at a rudimentary level.

To completely rule out the use of photography in numismatics seems like a rather narrow-minded and antiquarian approach to modern technology. Auction houses have been using photographs since the late 1800's to convey the appearance of a coin, so that people could bid on them. And photograph technology has improved quite a bit since then. Is it so impossible that we could use pictures to aid in our evaluation of coins?

I assumed it was a summer seminar because that is the most in-depth version of the course.

The question remains, however: for those not fortunate enough to attend one of these types of classes, how should they learn to grade? Or should they just give up?

 

They should aspire and plan. And make do until able.

 

Yes, and this is why I don't trade over the Internet, with EXTRAORDINARILY few exceptions. I do buy from major auction houses, especially S/B, but NEVER without having looked at the coin in my hand in a lot viewing room first.

A quick count yields 24 coins bought from either Heritage or S/B, absolutely each and every one looked at in my hand before I placed a bid.

It's just the way I roll.

I use EVERY ONE of my vacation days traveling to coin events. I can't stand sand on me.

 

Sorry, VKB, but I think that is a load of bollocks. I've been collecting for 32 years, and I've never been to one of those classes. I've read quite a few books though. I've been to quite a few shows. And I've looked at thousands of threads and pictures on CoinTalk and the NGC forums. I suppose you could say I'm making do, but I think I'm doing alright.

Well, that may work for you. In the modern era, for many collectors, the internet has opened up a wide range of possibilities. Just this year, I've bought coins from sellers in New York, California, Florida, Texas, Virginia, Spain, Russia, Germany, Austria, Japan, China, and Brazil. These are all coins that I saw pictures of on the internet, and evaluated them solely through their photographs. (some of them were slabbed by NGC, some of them were raw)

I'd never have been able to do that in the world you live in, but my collection is so much more complete because of it. If I limited myself to only the coins that I saw at the shows I was able to go to (and I go to more shows than a lot of people on this website), I'd never have anything close to the collection I do.

If that works for you, and you are happy with your limited view of the hobby, then great for you. But, please realize that in this century, there is a whole world wide web of information and photographs.

 

You obviously have superior photo interpretation skills of translating between 2 and 3 dimensions than I have been able to acquire as far as coins are concerned. It never worked for me, so I did what it takes to be able to function.

I spent nearly 12 years doing glamour photography. I guess I "know too much" about how to tell lies with a camera, so I don't trust them.

I have so many venues to buy coins live and in person, mostly locally, than I could ever hope to get to, or afford to buy, so I find NO loss from eschewing the Internet.

I've never been about quantity. It's about the search. I will drive and have driven 50 miles to an auction to possibly buy ONE coin that I've never even seen a picture of, just a date and mintmark listing. Sometimes an auctioneer's grade attempt, sometimes not. My favorite auctioneers I prefer to use, I know how they grade. There was one blind as a bat, but he died.

Right now I have 6 auctions to attend between now and Thanksgiving, averaging about 600 lots each, without a single picture in any of them. You go, you look, you bid, or you don't and you go home.

It's the way WE roll in Central Pennsylvania.

 

I didn't start this? Or did I ?

 

Group hug

 

Hey, "Physics" has been collecting 32 years. I've been collecting for 55 years. He has a way he can collect that works for him. I have a (perhaps fairly unique, but it's the only place I have been) place that supports a way I collect that works for me. My collection includes over 50,000 single coins, not counting BU rolls which also represent a five-figure number of coins, and I've bought MAYBE 40-50 of them over the Internet, total. And maybe 5 in the last three years. (Not counting U.S.Mint purchases, which I'd still do by mail with a stamp if they still offered that option.)

He likes photos, I don't trust them because I know how deceptive they can be. If that makes me a freak among numismatists, so freaking be it!!! I'm happy doing it MY way.

I do my numismatic purchases overwhelmingly hand to hand, eye to eye, mano a mano, and I prefer to do BOTH my purchasing AND my numismatic education PRECISELY that way. I dissent from the prevailing Internet culture. I dislike it immensely.

I am NOT blind. I see it is the future and the desire of many. I refuse to participate. That's all. And the Philly ANA convention was loaded to the gills with people who prefer to do it the way I do. RECORD attendance. In 2018. Go figure. Maybe because it was in MY neck of the woods. Think that might be "a thing"?

We are VERY different here, and we are keenly aware we are. Not even Chicago, Denver or Anaheim could hold a candle to Philly in terms of raw attendance, and you know what? They WON'T either. The Denver and Anaheim ANA shows were a stinking embarrassment. Baltimore (even closer to me than Philly) packs people in three times a year! The Middle Atlantic and Northeastern states are the Mac Daddy king of numismatics. "Old school" not only LIVES here, it THRIVES!

 

Can we get a grade reveal?

 

I would prefer only a description of the grade, not a picture!!! Pictures can be extremely deceptive.

Oh yeah, vf30 straight graded. Nice coin.

 

Back in the 80s, ANACS would have graded it 20 Obv. and 30 Rev...does that make it a 25 today? The nice eye appeal is a trade off for the old cleaning in my opinion. I'll still guess at VF30 by today's standards.

 

But don’t you want to see how many pages we can make it before a grade reveal?

 

Of course! The picture would be deceptive.

 

So, I’ll offer a description. Many here nailed the grade as VF Details Cleaned. I agree with others who say it was cleaned a while back and then retoned. I did find the color to be attractive and it fits well into my dansco type set (where the main theme is problem coins that still have eye appeal).

 

Some may still want a picture of the grade, so here it is:

 

I nailed the grade but this is an example of why, in my opinion, a details grade should not be a kiss of death. Many “details” coins still have good eye appeal.

 

I totally agree! And that’s what I’m trying to do with my type set. Many of the coins have issues, but they still have eye appeal.

 

The issue I have is you could probably wait two months, send it back in cracked out, and another panel would straight grade it.