GTG Bust Half

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by longshot, May 25, 2020.

  1. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    1807 Slab.jpg

    Thanks for all the opinions. I bought this coin raw, and coins like this don't come along very often in my neck of the woods. I really liked it, and paid appropriately for a VF+, which is what I felt it was. I think it even has a little more luster than my pictures show. ICG's opinion was a bit of a shock, so it's good to see all of you are grading it higher. I'll likely resubmit it at some point.
     
    ddddd and Nathan401 like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    That grade is simply stupid.

    Unless they net graded it for some reason
     
    micbraun and Dynoking like this.
  4. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Have you contacted them about that grade. Very low at a 12. If you resubmit I'd send it to almost anyone but ICG.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

  6. schnickelfritz48

    schnickelfritz48 Well-Known Member

  7. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    A F-12 grade is insanity. Submit it to a real grading service.
     
    Dynoking likes this.
  8. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    1. While the obverse is the important side, Let's see the reverse.
    2. IMHO, anyone :spitoutdummy: who calls a grade "STUPID" from only an image of one side is a :bucktooth::wacky: fool.
    3. You guys grading this coin may wish to check out PCGS PHOTOGRADE.
    4. WE (you and I) don't know if the color around the stars is true mint luster or an old cleaned surface that is untoned.

    The only thing I can tell from the image is the coin is circulated and LOOKS original. It is also flatly struck.

    PS I suggest that the next time the OP wants to play GTG, he covers the label. it may not change much of the GUESSES but it will be more fun. For example, I probably would have guessed F-15!

    EDIT: I was going to add this later but this will save time. Any dealer in the country will sell this as a VF-25 minimum. IT IS NOT AN XF!
     
  10. Mike Thorne

    Mike Thorne Well-Known Member

  11. bradgator2

    bradgator2 Well-Known Member

    Looks like the reverse wear played a huge role. You have almost no eagle wing feathers.

    71DFC791-6286-466C-9167-C9CCA39E3E12.jpeg
    PCGS photograde:
    15ACF4BA-5F4A-4C20-A12B-2214075A5800.jpeg
     
    Insider likes this.
  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    :oops::rolleyes: I was going to ask where the reverse image came from. Color me :bucktooth: STUPID! LOL.

    I looked the coin up. I was the first grader on the coin. I graded it F-15, Flat Strike. My grade was lowered. I still believe most young (60 yo and lower) collectors will think it is a VF. They grew up in a different time as grading loosened. Folks grading it XF need to take a coin grading course. :p
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  13. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    What does "net grading" mean? Thanks for your help.
     
  14. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    When people mention net grading, they often mean the coin had some issue that was bordering on making it a problem coin, but instead the graders just lowered the grade to account for that issue (i.e. the coin has XF40 details but an old cleaning; instead of calling it XF Details Cleaned, some might net grade it as a VF 30).
     
    Pickin and Grinin, JeffC and Insider like this.
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    After deciding on the coin's grade based on the amount of its design remaining, a net grader will lower the grade further due to things they don't like to get the coin's value more in line with the coin market. That leads to cases where the same coin is graded AU, damaged rim OR VF. It is very confusing.
     
    ddddd likes this.
  16. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    Mental note: Always look at capped bust half dollars in ICG slabs. Apparently their standards are very different from "any dealer in the country" and every collector on this forum.
     
  17. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    When I looked at this coin and gave it a 30, I had significant concerns about the degree of wear on the reverse, which I judged to be in the 12 to 15 range. But this was a "Guess the Grade" exercise in which you put yourself into the shoes of the TPG which for most of us we assume will be either PCGS or NCG. The obverse is a flat strike with wear in the hair, cap, and clasp but is strong in the drapery at the bosom. Those factors plus the early date, color, and relatively clean fields led me to guess that the TPG would give this coin a compromise grade of 30.

    My personal grade was 20.
     
    micbraun, Insider and ddddd like this.
  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    mynamespat, posted: "Always look at capped bust half dollars in ICG slabs. Apparently their standards are very different from "any dealer in the country" and every collector on this forum."

    This is great advice from a numismatic genius who apparently just :rolleyes::jawdrop: figured out what's been going on for decades IN ALL COIN SERIES. Everyone :cigar: knows that the top two services tend to be a little loose overall. Ever since the 1990's a knowledgeable grader could buy coins from one of the strict services and get an upgrade. When I worked at PCI, dealers would show me all the PCI "detailed" coins they got straight graded by the big two.

    BTW, have you ever heard of the "Crackout Game" between PCGS and NGC? it exists because the opinion of an examiner depends on a lot of factors.

    As I wrote above, the OP's coin is one that can be "pushed" into the next grade when it is sold commercially. Statements befitting a coin as this are: "You'll never be able to buy that at a Fine price." Or, "I'll buy all the "Fines" you can get me that look like this." Unfortunately, those statements AND :stinkyfeet: do not automatically make it a VF. :(
     
  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Unfortunately, a GTG is not a true GTG with the grade showing. ;)
     
  20. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    We who play with bust halves know strike quality is all over the place. Some years are mostly poor. I don't give photograde much credibility. Yes, flat strike here. I just feel that the remaining luster is what one grades by on these early dates. No?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
    Insider likes this.
  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Big "Yes."

    That's why they call them "guides." The best graders know the series. Some dies are so worn they've lost some of their design details. Fresh dies and worn dies are often used together. Throw in A COMBINATION OF WEAR AND FLAT STRIKE and …
    knowledge of the examiner, time, magnification, + human error (remember, I did not grade it F-12) and we get: "Grading is subjective."

    I don't value (commercial) grade. I couldn't tell you within $50 what the OP's coin is worth without looking it up. The grade I put into the computer (F-15,flat strike - which I would be happy to defend in a court case) and any notes, is ONLY based on the condition of the coin. IMO, the coin is NOT A TWELVE!! If you think any TPGS gets it right all the time...
     
    longshot likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page