GTG 1944-D Jefferson War Nickel

Please guess the assigned grade of this 1944-D Jefferson War Nickel and vote in the attached poll. Thank you!



As always, comments welcome!

 

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MS 66
...I don’t think the color would earn a star but maybe it’s just not popping in the image

 

'65........

 

I am still at a 65.
The steps seem to be much clearer in this photo.

 

I would say 64. I can't judge the luster or whether those are hits on the shoulder or marks on the slab. The toning is also neutral imo.

 

65, but a 65* with a very quick dip to make the surfaces more even. I very well could be wrong though, as I have never likely blotches of toning, finding it distracting.

I do like your Jeff threads Paul, and look forward to learning something.

 

65.

I really hope that doesn't have a star. I think it is quite unattractive.

 

MS-65 aswell

 

65

 

I went 66
Not sure how i feel about that toning so i will call it neutral.

 

The results from Cointalk are as follows:

MS64: 3
MS65: 12
MS66: 6
MS67: 0

And here is NGC's grade from an NGC 5 Holder (1992-1997).



So here is my question to the forum. Assuming this coin is actually overgraded by one point, how can the grading standards of NGC have loosened in the last 20 years if this coin is indicative of their standard for an MS66 in the mid 90's?

 

I think there is one thing you are forgeting here....those No-Line fatties often change the appearance of coins, mute luster and lower the eye appeal. I think that may be the case here. On smaller coins especially, that label causes them to tone and its usually dark and unattractive. I think thats what we got here.
Im guessing that coin was a nice even color when NGC graded it, probably showed more luster too.

 

I would say you are assuming this coin was average for the grade IMHO. That is a big if, since all of us have seen over and under graded slabs. About the luster of this type of holder or in holder toning, I would defer to others more knowledgable. I also admit I seem to be a stricter grader than slab firms or dealers it seems.

 

I voted 66.

 

Oh, so we are blaming the holder now. You are claiming that the coin was white when graded and turned in slab, but only in patches?

What would you have graded this coin if it was completely untoned?

 

No, im not just ALL THE SUDDEN blamig the holder NOW- heres a quote from july 2018

Ive seen these holder tone smaller coins, plenty of times and usually the smaller coins turn ugly. The larger coins will usually just tone up top by the label, but ive seen them tone patchy as well ocassionally.
Heres the thread i started- where that quote came from. I ranked the TPG
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/tpg-rankings-all-imho.317635/


(It was a featured thread btw)

 

First, I have already accounted for the one grade deduction. The coin was graded MS67, and I'm asking if this is what NGC used as the standard for MS66 in the mid nineties, how could they possibly have room to loosen their grading standards.

Second, I have owned hundreds of No Line Fatty slabs and never encountered this phenomenon that you seem to think is common. The toning on the coin in this thread is not terminal and would be treated neutral with respect to the grade. As for the luster, it is actually pretty decent as can be seen from the slab photo.

 

For what it is worth, I just voted MS67 before I saw the reveal. I would need to see in hand and loupe the steps. Interestingly, NGC required all six steps to be full for a FS designation before 2003 when it abandoned the FS designation for both "5 FS" and "6 FS" designations.

 

NGC has always been looser on Jefferson Nickels; however, I have no problems with the coin as a 67, and it doesn't look overgraded to me. The color has a lot to be desired though. You could crack it and resubmit it, and I think it would still come back as a 67.

Regarding grading standards, my perception is that while NGC did go through a liberal stage as PCGS did, NGC began to tighten up after the advent of CAC even more than PCGS. Like everything, there are cycles of tightening and loosening based on my experiences in both submitting and purchasing contemporaneously slabbed pieces through the years.

 

I don't have a problem with it as an MS67 either, but it is definitely low end for the grade, especially considering that it is a 44-D. Personally, I like the color and think it gives the coin some character and originality.

My point about the grading standards is that I have seen Jeffersons across every era of TPG grading and I don't see any discernible proof of these cycles. To me, it is a conspiracy theory based on the inherent subjectivity of the grading process. If a coin comes back conservatively graded, all of a sudden the submitter thinks they tightened standards. If he makes a score, the TPGs have loosened standards. I don't believe any of it. They have one standard, they apply it the best they can, and subjectivity is to blame for everything else.