GTG: 1875 20-cent piece

This coin is NOT VF by ANYBODY's modern grading standards! Therefore, they must have net graded the coin for some reason. ICG recently was pissed all over (and we deserved it!!) for lowballing a very flatly struck half dollar with a similar amount of luster because in the opinion of the finalizer the coin was not worth the money of a higher grade. Net grading SUCKS!

I suggest the OP post this coin on CU as a guess the grade and watch the fireworks!

PS IMO, this coin does not deserve a "details" or "net" grade.

 

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The only solution to this is to make the slab label bigger or the print smaller. A poorly struck AU is worth less than a well struck AU. That is simply a fact.

 

In your opinion...should this coin have been straight graded then? If so...what do you make of the hairlines in the fields? My initial thought was the coin had been scrubbed with something.

What grade do you think this coin deserves? I thought the wear was AU range but felt it had been harshly cleaned.

 

Yes...it's worth less. But AU wear is AU wear. The TPG is grading the coin not providing a value. The value is for the market to decide.

 

johnmilton, posted: "The only solution to this is to make the slab label bigger or the print smaller. [??] A poorly struck AU is worth less than a well struck AU. That is simply a fact."

Of course it is a FACT! A coin with a hole in it is worth less than one without. So what? The twenty cent piece looks to have a normal strike to me. As I posted it is very under graded. I hope the OP does a GTG on CU. I'll be looking for it even though I'm banned over there.

CamaroDMD, posted: "Yes...it's worth less. But AU wear is AU wear. The TPG is grading the coin not providing a value. The value is for the market to decide."

That is THE WAY an ideal coin grading system SHOULD WORK. Unfortunately, it does not.

CamaroDMD, asked: "In your opinion...should this coin have been straight graded then? If so...what do you make of the hairlines in the fields? My initial thought was the coin had been scrubbed with something. What grade do you think this coin deserves? I thought the wear was AU range but felt it had been harshly cleaned."

From the image alone, it has an AU-50 amount of design detail or at worst an XF-45 amount. I went through a "stage" when I thought any coin with hairlines was cleaned. I discovered that is not the case.

 

I am not going to beat "the dead horse" here beyond this post, but if I were offered this coin in an AU-50 holder, I would not be a buyer because of the fairly modern rubbing. If I had this piece beside and properly graded AU-50, I would take the no problem coin.

One of the promises that the TPGs made was that they would keep the less than knowledgeable buyers from getting ripped off. If I ordered a sight, unseen 1875 Twenty Cent Piece in AU-50 and got this coin, I would not be happy.

Given the pluses and minuses for this coin, VF-35 is a fair market value grade. The proper technical grade would be EF-45 sharpness, additional fairly recent light rubbing on the high points.

 

Totally agree on point 1...that is how it should be but often isn't.

On point 2...the hairlines. In cases like this, what do you look for with the hairlines to differentiate between a coin that has been harshly cleaned and one that has not? I assume, in photos this can be hard too.

 

I was at XF45, nice coin. The hairlines look to be from circulation to me and at a different angle of lighting I’m guessing they wouldn’t be prominent.

In my opinion the surfaces themselves don’t look like they have been scrubbed so I’m inclined to think those are from circulation.

 

I looked at this post a couple of times and never guessed because I couldn't make up my mind. The discussion echoes my internal debate. If the coin is not in hand, the interpretation of the picture can vary.

 

First of all, your personal grading standards and your personal preferences about the coins you would buy or what you like are VERY IMPORTANT to you. In the case of this - no argument XF/AU coin, you and the professional graders at PCGS can call it a high VF. While your opinion is very important to you, IMO, it is very unfortunate that a major TPGS feels the same way.

As I posted, there might be something we cannot see OR they agree with you that the coin is only worth VF money. That's what is unfortunate. Commercial graders and net graders routinely take an excellent example of a coin for a particular grade and lower its grade to some level that makes them not only look stupid but also confuses those who rely on their opinion. Until a coin's value/desirability/rarity/ownership is separated from its actual condition of preservation, crap as this will continue to exist. This coin is under graded as a VF.

Experience. LOL. Look, in my experience most collectors cannot tell the different degrees of mechanical cleaning. This is mostly due to the fact that since 1986, the major TPGS don't make an attempt to educate collectors. They call anything from brushed to polished simply "cleaned." Additionally, most collectors call any coin with hairlines "harshly cleaned." It is hard to educate collectors about the differences without hands on training.

PS You've given me an idea for my grading column. Thanks.