Greek coin dealer robbed in London Hilton

Being on the road with coins 101 - Don’t let them out of your sight, have gun handy / until locked up in case in bourse room.

Can’t believe that guy let his guard down. Unbelievable dumb mistake. He could have stayed with the coins and sent wife out to get stuff from fast food place.

 

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London Hilton has excellent room service. Why didn't he use it?

Cal

 

Even better they could have used door dash to order anything. Also most security guard companies can provide a guard same day within hours of request for the door for a few hundred dollars a day. Maybe the guy was so cheap he was careless

 

That's garbage. Your just blaming the victim. How about the people they sell the stolen property to? Are they guilty of anything?

 

Or maybe they could have moved into a bunker designed for nuclear holocaust...

 

yeah - you can trust those guys, especially when you frequently are carry around coins for business. You are both vicious and vendictive against the victem.

 

Exploring possibilities and understanding human nature is not blaming anyone what your trying to do is shutdown a conversation when you feel it goes against the narrative you want to hear.

I was giving my thoughts with logic and reason the best of my ability not tribalism or emotional outbursts.

 

All I am hearing is excuses to blame the victims of theft. It is unethical it is erodes the hobby and the market. If you can't understand the ABCs of ethics, not to mention the law, then there is no hope.

The solution to the rampant theft is not everyone packing guns and playing Wednesday Night in Tombstone. It is to get serious about not protecting the trade in stolen property.

 

Go outside and get some fresh air.

 

The victim must share the blame in this case. He gave the bad guys an easy target. That's just not something you do. You must make an effort to protect yourself.
The bad guys share the rest of the blame.

You know that's not true. They posted the honest truth about a bad situation. No need to post insults and pick fights. Take your blinders off and actually read what others have posted.

 

I, for one, feel really bad for the victim. I use to travel a great deal for my employer. I would be so tired, all I could do was to go to bed. Many times, I had to go to our customers place of business and I had to do my job at their business with little or no rest, sometimes until the next day. I found that when I would work those ours, I would make some terrible mistakes. On one occasion, the place that I had to go was within walking distances from my hotel. When I was finished, I packed my stuff up and was walking back to my hotel. It wasn't more than 3 city blocks, when I got knocked in the head and my worthless stuff was stolen, as well as my wallet that had $300 in it, and my credit cards. (You can imagine what I had to do to replace them.) Anyway, I woke up in the hospital with a concussion and bells and rocks moving around in my head. Anyway, I made a report to the police, but never heard from them, but there was never an effort to use my credit cards, driver's license, etc.
Who would have thought walking 3 blocks would end up that way. The man whose coins were stolen should be glad he wasn't in the room at the time they got in. There's no telling what would have happened to him. "To hell with the coins, I would be glad I was alive." I'm sure he was bonded. He would not have been allowed to carry valuable coins to the water fountain.

 

If I had that much in coins no way would I be leaving the hotel room. Door Dash for me.

 

I'm willing to be the hotel's T&C limit their liability unless goods are placed in the hotel safe (not the in-room joke box).

 

yes you would. YOu wouldn't travel and lock yourself in a hotel room and neither would anyone else.

 

I am sure the liability of the Hotel is limited, even in the Hotel Safe. I seem to remember signing releases and having to make declarations as to valuables I am carrying. That doesn't make the thieves any less guilty or address any of the underlining problems involving the trade in stolen coins within the community. As I posted before, to date, there is no amount of stolen material that can't be absorbed by the Numismatics trade. That is the underlining problem that fuels these thefts. And it can't be solved with Tech-9s and Rottweilers.

 

I swore to myself that I would not weigh in on this story but like the comedian Ron White's story of being stopped for drunk driving: "I had the right to remain silent but I didn't have the ability".

1) We don't actually know that the Greek coin dealer is a victim. We only know he claims to be a victim. I feel confident the police and the hotel's legal/insurance/investigatory agents are looking closely at the dealer's possible involvement. They will also be looking to determine if the maid was involved since opening the room no doubt violates one or more written hotel policies and procedures. But, since the police and the hotel business are adults, they are capable of holding two thoughts in their head at the same time, so they will also be treating it as a genuine crime where the Greek coin dealer is an innocent victim and the maid is simply stupid/naive/gullible/threatened, etc.

2) The maid was probably instantaneously fired for gross violation of company policy unless he/she can demonstrate coercion. It matters not that some people might construe that firing as an admission of the hotel's culpability because it is not. She's fired for egregiously violating company policy. The hotel's liability, if any, remains to be seen. But here's a thought for you: If the hotel can demonstrate that the coin dealer was feckless, careless or negligent in his responsibility to take due care to protect his property, then there is a good chance that the hotel will not have any liability. There is a requirement, sometimes in the law and sometimes in commercial contracting, that due care be taken to protect one's property. Of course, UK law is not US law so I can't say how this case will be handled under UK civil law.

3) It is distracting and unhelpful to make the argument that criticizing the dealer's behavior is in some fashion "blaming the victim". This is a common trope nowadays for avoiding personal responsibility. I am reminded of when my college graduate daughter moved home for a few months to get her feet on the ground. She took up the habit of partying downtown until the wee hours. Aside from the disruption to family life which I took her to task for, I also advised her that it was unwise to expose herself to personal attack downtown in the morning hours, which was happening with some frequency. Her response was typically childish: "I have the right to be there and to be safe."
The dealer was unquestionably foolish and negligent even though it is his right to be so. But that "right" does not shield one from criticism. No reasonable person, especially one in the rare coin business, would have an expectation that a hotel room is a safe environment. And yes, criminals are obviously the most culpable in this crime but that does not absolve the coin dealer of his responsibility to himself and/or his clients/employer to take adult, informed, and prudent due care.

And finally, I for one find Mr. cplradar's riding of his hobby horse to be amusing so keep it up, please. I particularly like his "there 'otta be a law" arguments. It's a great distraction from the road rash mint error threads.

 

The personal responsibility is only on the thieves. A crime was committed and there is only one victim.

By viewing these crimes this way one is not only misplacing the blame, but they are ignoring the preponderance of such victims within the community. Theft of coins is commonplace and most collectors are likewise victimized by substantial coin thefts. It is rampant everywhere to great personal and community loss. By being disingenuous to one victim, it diminishes them all. Regardless of the safeguards coin collectors use, thefts continue to take place because it is condoned. It is unreasonable and dishonest to believe that collectors can protect themselves if they are diligent enough and manly enough. Aside from the fact that coin theft, every time, is a crime, it is not reasonable to expect collectors to be so relentlessly diligent. That is beyond human ability. And collecting is a hobby and a joy, not a dreaded burden. The protection of personal property is everyone's responsibility. It is not taken seriously enough, and the numbers bare that out.

 

Support your claim with credible statistics. You really do make the most incredible unsupported statements.

By using the word "most", you must mean the common understanding of greater than 50%. Are you really claiming that more than 50% of collectors are victims of serious coin thefts? Again, support your claim with credible evidence.

We might argue over reasonableness but "dishonest"? And "manly"? I never intimated that this had anything to do with "manliness". But I assure you that many collectors and dealers, regardless of their sex or gender, with valuable collections go to quite extreme lengths to protect their assets, as do I. I was at a coin show recently and asked a dealer friend of mine to estimate how many dealers on the bourse were armed. He looked around and said "All of them" and that was a bourse with hundreds of dealers on it and multiple armed security. While everyone would like to be able to leave their wallet stuffed with $100 bills on the sidewalk and expect that it wouldn't be taken, no adult is going to live their life that way nor have any reasonable expectation of it.

My argument is not that we should accept crime or not prosecute it. My argument is that living in the real world with all of its imperfections requires one to take certain measures to protect oneself from people of evil intent. Failure to do so is the epitome of hope over reality. Reminds me of "Give peace a chance!" Nice sentiment but that's all it is.

Actually, I am sympathetic to your basic argument that the authorities and the commercial rarities corporations could do more to stem the tide of both theft and counterfeits than they are currently doing. But I think you are missing the boat if you think that constantly carping on it in this forum is doing anything about the problem. But of course, if you find it cathartic, please go right ahead.

 

Easily. And most of the crimes are not even reported.

 

As a practical matter, one needs to try to protect themselves. But history is pretty clear that building castles is entirely ineffective at reducing crime, and it doesn't work. The criminal element is relentless. Crime reduction only has happened when the problem is tackled on the societal level, and the first step is to stop shifting blame.

Crime is the fault of thieves and those that would give them safe harbor. The trade in stolen coins needs to be ended. That includes pawn shops, coin dealers, auction houses up and down food chain. We have the tools to do this. It requires transparency and a commitment. And that is why I repeat this. It is not catholic. It is an attempt to lend light to the topic. We all need change.