Featured Great Britain Farthing 1860

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by SRSNUM, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    The Great Britain Farthing of 1860 imaged below appears to be an interesting candidate for a new variety. All comments welcome.

    OBVERSE
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860OBV.jpg


    'I' doubled at top left.
    ' GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860OBV2.jpg

    'R' doubled at top left, bottom left & bottom right.
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860OBV3.jpg

    1 1/2 stops after 'D'.
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860OBV4.jpg

    'R' doubled at top left, outside lower
    left of the upright & outside right
    of the upper loop.
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860OBV5.jpg

    REVERSE
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV.jpg

    '6' doubled at top right, '0' imbedded into inner circle.
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV13.jpg


    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV6A.jpg GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV6B.jpg

    The '1' is imbedded into a strongly
    reworked inner circle. Note
    splitting of circle with one part
    extending into juncture of the
    upright and left foot of the '1';
    the other part extending below
    the '1' through two denticles.
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV5.jpg
     
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  3. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    I thought to supply additional information to strengthen the case. See additional description and images below.

    The case for a new variety entails a comparison with the known varieties at the Aboutfarthings.co.uk website.

    We start with the obverse of the coin in hand which exhibits a toothed border and 5 berries in the wreath. As a result, this limits the obverse to a choice of obverse 3 or obverse 3a from the Aboutfarthings site as these are the dies that exhibit a toothed border with 5 wreath berries. Elimination of both follows immediately as the coin in hand exhibits 1½ stops after the D of “F:D”(see digital image). Obverse 3 exhibits 2 stops after “F:D”. Obverse 3a exhibits no stops after “F:D” . This seems sufficient to show the existance of a new obverse die for the coin in hand.

    To add additional evidence for a new obverse die, the following differences are noted for the coin in hand that are not exhibited in obverse dies 3 & 3a :


    The first ‘I’ in ‘VICTORIA’ is doubled at the top (see digital image).

    The first ‘R’ in ‘BRITTANIAR’ is doubled at top left, bottom left & bottom right (see digital image).

    The ‘R’ in ‘REG’ is doubled at top left, outside lower left of the upright & outside right of the upper loop (see digital image).





    We now continue with the reverse of the coin in hand which exhibits a toothed border. There are 2 reverse dies indicated on the Aboutfarthings site; reverse A and reverse B. Reverse A is of the beaded border type. Reverse B is of the toothed border type. We thus eliminate reverse A and are obliged to compare the B reverse with the reverse of the coin in hand.

    The B reverse is eliminated immediately as it does not exhibit a doubled ‘6’and an embedded ‘0’ as does the coin in hand (see digital images).

    To make the comparisons, below find digital images of the relevant obverse and reverse dies borrowed from the Aboutfarthings site.

    OBVERSE 3
    CG1860-VB-3B-Obv-1.jpg

    OBVERSE 3A
    1860-Obv-3a-1.jpg


    REVERSE B
    CG1860-VB-2aB-Rev-1.jpg









     
  4. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    Do not know how the emoticons entered my reply. Each emoticon should be ':D'.
     
  5. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    You get the picture...must be a bug.
     
  6. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    It looks normal to me. Just a few recut letters & die repairs which were incredibly common at the time. I wouldn't get too hung up over it. :)
     
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  7. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    Thank you MBE for your response. Might you consider the following?

    Below find two magnified images of the ‘0’ (zero) in the date. The first is the coin in hand which shows the ‘0’ (zero) in the date imbedded in the inner circle. The second is the same area on the reverse of the die B coin on the aboutfarthings website. Note the ‘0’ (zero) above the inner circle and connected to the inner circle by a ‘bridge’. This bridge is likely due to die fatigue (deterioration). However, the ‘0’ (zero) itself is clearly above the inner circle to my eye.


    The question…is this sufficient evidence to indicate the existence of a new reverse die ‘C’ used to strike the coin in hand?

    COIN IN HAND
    GREATBRITAINFARTHING1860REV6.jpg

    COIN DIE 'B'- ALLABOUTFARTHINGS SITE
    CG1860-VB-2aB-Rev-1A.jpg
     
  8. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    When you put together a ":" and a "D" you get the grin emoticon :D
    To avoid that you must put a space between them : D

    Q
     
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  9. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    Your coin appears to be a lot more worn than the one from Aboutfarthings. Wear will also blend the detail together.

    This is the first one I picked up:

    1860 farthing date.jpg

    Is it a new die?
     
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  10. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    Time to accept the correct analysis from MBE and call it day. Many thanks to misterbadexample and Cucumbor for the their help.
     
    Cucumbor likes this.
  11. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    I had a few further thoughts after posting the above - my coin shows a repaired linear circle. If you take the bottom line to be the original, there is a clear gap to the 0, as per the Aboutfarthings example. Once recut, the line hits the 0.

    I had a look at the obverse. The F: D: are similar, to the point of sharing a little extra metal above the colon, the die chip to the centre stroke of the F, and the partially filled ½ colon:
    1860 farthing 1.jpg

    I don't have the repaired R in BRITT:
    1860 farthing 2.jpg


    Or the repairs in VICTORIA:

    1860 farthing 3.jpg

    The F: D: shows me it's the same die. Yours is a later stage, with some repairs made.

    Whilst I don't think it could be considered a variety as such, it does show a record of the repairs made to the die. :)
     
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  12. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    My example exhibits evidence of a 'late die state'. I did not show it but I have images of much of the inner circle which was considerably repaired; again evidence of a late die state.

    It was not mentioned, but the Allaboutfarthing 1860 B reverse is missing the top serifs of the 'I' in 'FARTHING' and virtually missing the the top serifs of the left upright in the 'H';likely a filled and partially filled die respectively.

    Am working on an 1868 Great Britain farthing that may prove of interest and perhaps make the grade for a new variety...thanks to all for their contributions to this thread.
     
  13. Bart9349

    Bart9349 Junior Member

    Well, I don't collect coins, but I have "accumulated" a few, especially cooper farthings (pre-1860), which are something still within my budget. (My interest in history quickly drops off after 1860.)

    Fortunately, farthings are still relatively inexpensive. Below is an unremarkable bronze farthing from 1860 that is a permanent resident of mine. (Not my pictures, however.)

    QVic.gif

    upload_2021-2-24_16-44-23.png

    F1860r (3).jpg

    F1860 (2).jpg
     
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  14. SRSNUM

    SRSNUM Active Member

    Nice original red coin. The coin exhibits vertical die polishing lines on the reverse. On the obverse, a broken T at the upper right serif in 'VICTORIA' and a die crack between the G of 'REG' and the F of ':F :D' through the upper stop of the colon. This seems remarkable to my eye.
     
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  15. Bart9349

    Bart9349 Junior Member

    I appreciate the discerning eye for these coppers. Bravo.

    Coin variants good. Virus variants bad.

    GKprettyCERT.gif
     
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