Grading? Why bother?

I like this. Sounds like they are giving each element of the coin a separate grade, which I think should be done with moderns.

 

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I always pick the coin I like and so far have only bought raw coins. And I buy the coin, not the grade. What I'm proposing is a more objective way to grade, one that IMHO would better describe the actual condition of the coin. I think you'll have to admit there's little agreement among others here about the grade of coins in the GTG posts, for example.

 

Another reason to have valuable coins graded is for insurance reasons. In part, I mean if you want to insure coins against loss, but mostly I'm thinking of heirs. If you suddenly become incompetent or die, what are your heirs going to do with a bunch of raw coins? Well, they might start by cleaning them, or taking them to the closest pawn shop, or accepting an off the cuff offer from cousin Billy, etc. If the coins are in PCGS or NGC slabs, they will be protected from busy hands, and their value can be determined quickly. They will also be immediately acceptable to major dealers and auction houses.

Cal

 

Someone challenging a grade means nothing.

 

In my opinion grading has its place but ain't important to me then again I collect coins solely for the sake of the coin and condition isn't a big factor for me. Now I will admit it's cool having coins of value and knowing the grade helps with that but it's more of a side thing for me but that's just my opinion

 

And why not? To me, it indicates there really is very little agreement as to how a grade is determined. Would you say it doesn't bother you to see coins overgraded? Or do you simply follow the ANA grading system?

 

Grading has subjectivity in it, always has almost certainly always will. Even purely technical grading has subjective elements of how bad is this mark, where's it located, when does this become a details coins ect. It is impossible to remove subjectivity from grading and if you really wanted to see the market be disgusted then removing eye appeal from grading would do it. People would be disgusted at the ugly dogs getting high grades when their ugly appearance no longer holds their grade back.

You also have to consider the source of disagreements. Have they seen the coin in hand? Are they an expert grader in the series? What is the disagreement exactly? Someone seeing a picture on a forum and calling the grading wrong means nothing really.

Not at all because if I disagree with a grade I wouldn't buy it. My disagreement or 99 percent of other peoples disagreement really means nothing, I don't agree with every CAC coin but the TPG and CAC combined know far more than I do or basically anyone posting does.

A coin isn't over-graded just because I disagree, they're very likely right about the grade and I just don't like that coin which is perfectly fine. There's also series where I am average at best which is probably an overstatement because I never mess with them so I keep my mouth shut about those while others think they are expert graders at everything.

Do mistakes happen occasionally sure, there isn't a person or company on the planet that has never made a mistake ever. Those actual mistakes though are FAR fewer than internet forums make it out to be. Just because someone doesn't like the grade doesn't mean is was graded wrong or that they're right.

There is no actual ANA system. Their grading guide is reporting the market trends of grading not a counsel that sat down and determined official everyone must follow standards.

 

I can see why you would agree with a cleaned coin getting a grade bump or more. If they do a good job! That makes it acceptable Right?
Your line of defense doesn't work.

I like the Idea of paying for the service. Make a check card. And Grader notes, why not?

 

This, 1000% this. Forget the silly little "buy the coin" mantra and read this post, over and over!

 

Ignore the coin and blindly trust the holder and the sticker? No thanks.

Baseball21 sure has a lot to say about how accurate the TPGs are, but when opinions on a grade are requested, he’s never there. Hmmmmmm......

 

For 99% of the collectors, blind trust of the TPGs is good advice. For the 1% who actually know how to grade, heeding the TPG grade instead of thinking you know it all would be wise. Often times, coins get silent net grades for reasons undisclosed. And coins are market graded in a number of different ways. To ignore this in an attempt to cling to an outdated method of grading as many on this forum love to do, is extremely foolish to your wallet.

 

I've never hidden my thoughts on GTG threads and how I think they're for entertainment at best even though some try to use them to discredit the TPGs or to show how superior their grading is ect. I rarely bother with them since most follow the same path of everyone agreeing once a couple people post the same grade, someone almost always bashes the TPG grade or acts superior, and a lot of the time most people guess low because they want to appear to be tight graders.

To make it even worse some of the people that do the things mentioned above then want very different standards when it's their coin being graded by the TPGs. I only participate on a handful of threads on this forum at this point, I have no interest in getting caught in the middle of the negativity of GTG threads. Definitive grading HAS to be done in hand, looking at a over magnified picture is not proof of disproving the TPGs. Also it's way to repetitive having to consistently point out that tiny little marks on 20 inch monitors basically aren't even visible on a dime in hand ect.

 

Perish the thought for me.........I don't go back, and I don't look in the rear view mirror.

 

Actually, eye appeal of a coin can partly be measured. Luster is a degree of reflectivity, and taken with measuring wear and die cracks and other dings makes for a basis for objective grading. Now how you value the measurements is subjective. Maybe dings don't bother you as long as the luster (shine, reflectivity) is high and wear is minimal. All three measurements would constitute a technical grade, but it would be up to you to decide what you value in a coin. The grade wouldn't change, but your considered opinion would be yours and yours alone. When you go to sell the coin, the technical grades wouldn't change, but the potential buyer might, based on them, value the coin differently.

As for the ANA book, I understand it isn't the grading standard, and I learned that after I bought it. And that's another reason why I think making a move towards objective grading with the current technology we have today would mean more information for the collector to evaluate a coin, which can only be a good thing I would think.

 

Which makes grading subjective. What are we scientifically measuring exactly when you then have to say okay so what does this matter in terms of the grade?

Professionals do objectively grade coins how they see them using their skill and experience to weight the subjective aspects.

Except that isn't how it would work at all. What would happen is a bunch of buyers would say, "oh no I won't pay over greysheet for this it's only a 63 and I think it's overgraded ect". That already happens and would be way worse making grading pointless if all it was was a here you go you guys figure out the important parts yourself system.

You're basically just advocating to go back to raw coins by saying that it should all just be up to the buyer and seller to do the important part of grading.

 

What do you like about a coin? Maybe you don't care about luster if wear is minimal. A few dings are okay, but what kind they are and how many of them there are may make a difference in how much you want the coin. A technical grade that gives you that information makes you an informed buyer. The technical grade would never change, barring any mishandling or extensive cleaning after the technical grade has been established.

You say professional graders assign grades based on their experience. Then why are there so many debates here about a coin in a slab? It's because, as you said, they ultimately grade subjectively. I believe the process of how good a given coin is depends on - just like beauty - is in the eye of the beholder. This has nothing to do with the technical grade, but how you, as a collector, see the coin. You are not grading the coin, you are simply evaluating it personally as it appeals to you based on what the technical grade is. And the technical grade is objectively determined by computer analysis.

 

Computer analysis could never determine the technical grade there are to many variables IMO. What has happened is that technical grades are not so much used as they were meant. Grading company's have changed them, "two of them more than others" to benefit there profits and production.

 

Personally eye appeal is #1 to me for anything I would buy. I would rather have booming luster or great eye appeal with a few more marks/hits/slight rub ect than an ugly dog with fewer marks.

He's the thing though the technical grading you are proposing is nothing more than counting marks. Anyone can do that on their own there's no point in having a service that just counts marks for how they grade.

Because some think they can grade better. Others use out dated standards. Subjectivity. Picture vs in hand grading ect.

Computer grading was tried, it failed. Very few people want that. Just like very few people want grading to just be mark counting, the pure technical advocates do tend to be very vocal about it on forums though.

Collectors already do evaluate the coins by their own taste for what to buy and what not to buy. And eye appeal is by far the biggest determination of price. You can have coins that are the same grade for many many many multiples of each other despite that they have the same grade. The ones lacking eye appeal that are graded more technically or are low end generally sell low or right around book while the premium ones and the ones with great eye appeal sell for much more and sometimes even more than low end coins in the grade above.

 

All of the above is quite useless unless you believe in one of the TPG's. And if you swear by them? Then you will understand where @baseball21 is coming from.

For the rest of us, We are subjective in what we buy, It must make the grade you believe it to be. Or it is NO sale. The Market no doubt prefers PCGS.

But this?

There is zero subjectivity in this statement, only hearsay, it only portrays ones dependency to the TPG's.

 

Sure thing, you really just basically proved my point.