Grading? Why bother?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by John Skelton, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    I really don't understand the fuss over grading.
     
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  3. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    If the WiFi was out on the moon. You'd be golden. Almost like lighting a match with a marshmellow
     
    LakeEffect likes this.
  4. HAB Peace 28 2.0

    HAB Peace 28 2.0 Je ne me soucie plus vraiment

    I've seen PLENTY of over graded & under graded coins alike. Grading consistency is really all I want. I'm not complaining. Although, IMO it would be really nice if PCGS & NGC would try to do this a little better.
     
    Santinidollar likes this.
  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I think that this is my biggest concern also, The consistency just isn't there.

    If I like the coin and the condition is obvious I won't hesitate to point it out. And only possible with in hand purchases. If he doesn't like it, ya have to be prepared to walk away unless he has good points to counter your opinion. What it usually does is build a trust with him. Dealers know that coins are over graded? They see them everyday, I guarantee you they don't hesitate to do the same when buying.
     
    HAB Peace 28 2.0 likes this.
  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No it doesn't, it usually just makes it look like you're trying to get nicer stuff cheaper and that as a buyer you're not going to be worth the hassle. At the very least I can guarantee you you won't get first shot at the nice stuff or maybe not even a chance at the nicest stuff in the back when you're doing that.

    But since you're willing to do that I assume you also tell them when coins are undergraded right and pay the next or multiple grades up over the label grade right? If not the nonsense that I can grade better than TPGs and should pay my grade is nothing more than self serving attempts at price reductions.
     
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    You are taking out of the equation that I have paid up for many a Nice coin. I won't hesitate to do it either.

    Yes. Luckily, I have built a relationship with them that most won't take it.
    Buying coins in hand has it's advantages, and no doubt the dealers that sell this way would like to get more of your business. I like to call it a benefit to my collecting style. This way the fault is my own.
     
  8. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

  9. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    An illustration. Please forgive my lack of photographic skills.

    MS65 Type1... Sold at auction $515.00.
    E91556D3-5546-4EF2-B6FD-93A79A5EC07A.jpeg

    MS62FH Type 1... Purchased for $150.00.
    DF47B1BC-8DD9-4158-A3BA-D31FD71D857F.jpeg

    Side by side for comparison.
    0BE0A4DB-E15F-4E76-8992-3F93F996C355.jpeg

    I don’t know what verbiage I could add to this. The MS65 was the most disappointing coin I owned. The price was dictated by the grade bestowed by the TPG. Which coin would you rather have?
     
  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    @baseball21 and @Lehigh96 I am more a "raw coin" kind of guy, I tend to rile things up because I think that coins can stay raw and have more beauty than a resale value. I have requirements as to what I think a grade should be. I am very conservative when it come to coins, they have to meet my expectations. I've walked away from Awesome coins because for the grade they weren't worth it to me.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  11. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    By pay up I don't just mean for toning or something like that, literally like a coin graded 63 and you say I think this is a 65 and here's the price for that. That said if you do actually do that then yes I do think that's a more legitimate approach with your unique relationship there where you can do that.

    However, the vast majority of the time when people talk down the TPG grade they just want to buy it cheaper and it completely self-serving. The number that actually voluntarily pay up for the next grade is absolutely minuscule.
     
  12. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    The coin has gotten an originality bump, It may have a weak strike but for the details on the coin. It should be in question. The second coin is a full head and most likely been dipped in the past. I would be happy with the coin as long as the surfaces were as you photo'd them, mostly undisturbed.
     
  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That wasn't an originality bump. It's almost certainly technically graded but it's just ugly and grading ugly coins strongly is a major reason why NGC fell behind PCGS in US coins.

    Dipping doesn't lower grades. There's something that lowered it that we can't see from the pics but the brown lines don't help and S vs P mint aren't the same either.
     
  14. green18

    green18 Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    It means that when I'm gunnin' for something, I pay no attention to the holder.......only the coin contained within. When I ascertain the grade in my own minds eye, I look at the results on the holder. Maybe I agree with the assessment, maybe I don't, but I am the final grader.........
     
  15. LakeEffect

    LakeEffect Average Circulated

    Thank you, and you are, of course, correct. No WiFi, or no batteries? No problem. I have slide rule skills. But how did I get on the moon and how do I get home?
     
  16. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    The first coin almost certainly sat in a Dansco or coin album for years. The original toning is nearly terminal. It got an originality bump, If the coin is as lustrous as the photo says it is. Then it is probably a fantastic coin in hand. Still not a technical 65.
    Deep toning covers rubs, and contact marks. I can't tell you how to see them but they are there.
     
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That type of ugly toning doesn't get bumps. This is what many of us talk about when we say that people just shoot from the hip making assumptions about the TPGs or overvaluing their own skills and it's almost always the ones who don't have experience with the TPGs.

    NGC didn't look at that ugly toning and say we're going to bump this grade for lackluster eye appeal and ugly toning so give it another point :rolleyes:.

    Lol sure thing the old I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you for sharing super secret knowledge
     
  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    The market grading crap got overly annoying, so I left the market altoghether.

    I don’t either. Actually, that’s a lie. All of the fuss is that collectors can be assured of a value of their coins without having to have the knowledge/skill/effort of determining it themselves. So new collectors, investors, and the plain ol’ lazy folks are driving the demand of the slabs. More-advanced collectors just accept that slabs are the way thing are now.

    So am I. It allows me to get decent coins for great prices.

    I prefer my coins raw, but there is NO WAY IN HECK that you can get what they are truly worth (sometimes not even 25%!) when raw. (I am talking collector-to-collector, not selling to dealers.) I also found completely annoying and stupid.

    For example, I had a VF 1827 dime. I could not even get VG money for it raw. Once certified, I sold it for full value.

    Another example is an 1803 large cent that is VF by every measure of the grade. NGC graded it F-15, which drops the value by half because of the holder, not the merit of the coin itself. Here is a picture of it:

    6EBC53AE-9F5F-4E02-BAF9-213DD2D9668D.jpeg 85EB4148-3AC0-4BEB-AE3F-AB70CFAD81E7.jpeg

    And some people wonder why I got so soured by the US coin market...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  19. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That coin was lucky to get a straight grade at all
     
  20. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    It is just one opinion. I didn't say the toning was acceptable to most.
    My point is that buying a coin from others photos can be a gamble. What you see in a coin is not the same as I see. If you want to play their game go ahead and do it. I will stick to in hand purchases.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No you said/implied they bumped up the grade in your words "It got an originality bump". Too many people with no TPG experience are so quick to say how they grade thinking they know better.

    Point was just like it always was is that people need to stop saying why they graded something what if they have no experience with them.

    I don't care if you don't like that NGC coin, I don't like it either, but please don't just say whatever for what NGC graded it that way.
     
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