Grading Troubles

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by mrbrklyn, Jul 31, 2012.

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  1. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I think the coins are accurately grades, give a range of a grade possibly lower. People forget that Morgans have major bag marks and neither of those coins is excessively marked beyond normal Morgan expectations. Both coins have great strikes, eye appeal, and luster, which are major parts of grading. It isn't only "count the bag marks" in grading Morgans, but an overall appraisal of eye appeal, luster, strike and surface condition. I have no problem with how those coins were graded, and yes, CC GSAs are sometimes more liberally graded, as the number of bag marks from years of storage isn't stressed in the overall grade--is this necessarily bad?
     
    Morgandude11, Aug 2, 2012
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    In my opinion, yes, it is. You see, when you are grading a coin it does not matter how or why a contact mark got there. It only matters that the mark is there at all.

    Any mark, any flaw, any hairline, any scratch, any point of wear etc. - all of those things detract from the grade of a coin, regardless of how or why they got there.

    So to make excuses and say the marks, flaws, whatever don't count on this coin or don't count as much because this coin is so and so - that just is not accurate grading. That is looking at the world through rose colored glasses and only seeing what you want to see. Short and sweet, that is a lie.

    Now I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter to you or others that the TPG's lie, or if you prefer make excuses, but it should matter to you. Does it not matter to you when people tell you a lie about anything else ? It most most definitely matters to me.

    So why should it be any different with coins ?
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 2, 2012
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  4. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Simply put, I don't see it as lying. Every bag mark doesn't count as if they were points in beach volleyball. It is an overall impression of the surface preservation of the coin. Morgans get bag marks--they are big coins, and were in mint bags for years and years. If one looks at any grading standard for Morgans, nobody gets overly bent out of shape with some MINOR contact marks. This is, and has been the accepted grading standard for Morgan Dollars for years and years.
     
    Morgandude11, Aug 2, 2012
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. LindeDad

    LindeDad His Walker.

    Simple fact is that about half of the Morgans graded should be AU coins just because they circulated in bags does not mean they are Mint State coins. But you can't get all those dollars for AU coins so the grading became skewed even before there were TPG's.:devil:
     
    LindeDad, Aug 2, 2012
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I will readily agree with you that when it comes to grading more leniency is given to large coins than is given to small coins when it comes to bag marks. However, that leniency has to be applied equally. In other words, you cannot be more lenient with a CC coin than you can with say an O or an S or a P coin, just because the CC coins were stored in bank vaults for decades.

    That part is where the lie (excuse) is.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 2, 2012
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  7. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Why not put this to the test?

    Take a CC Morgan, and a CC GSA Morgan, submit them both and see what the TPG does.

    I have a feeling the GSA coin will be given more leniency on everything that should count against the grade than the non-GSA coin.

    Why? Because it's a GSA, and a CC strike.
     
    BUncirculated, Aug 2, 2012
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    There are many instances of "relative grading" when it comes to TPGs....

    GSA CC morgans are one.

    Key dates are another.

    Hoard coins are a third.

    Pedigreed coins are yet one more.

    BOTTOM LINE: I think we are better served not trying to judge the TPGs or justifing/refuting their actions, but rather we should simply understand their logic in hopes of predicting the results.

    Said a bit differently, you gain nothing by arguing, however, you can gain quite a bit by understanding. Or... The fool criticizes and the wise man seeks enlightenment.

    Have fun....Mike
     
    Leadfoot, Aug 2, 2012
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening


    Thank you. Finally some sanity in this endless debate!!!
     
    Morgandude11, Aug 2, 2012
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Add color and value to the list Mike and you pretty much round out the list ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 3, 2012
    #29 + Quote Reply
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