Grading Services for the Amateur Collector

I figured you were only making those in jest. It was actually funny. Sorry if I came across as a crank my friend

 

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While made in jest, most of those are actually true!

I'll expand it a bit as follows:
1. ICG is for collectible counterfeits (Henning Nickels), Certain restrikes (Gallery Mint pieces), Carr pieces, ....
2. Anacs for most Carr pieces (still preferred by many Carr fans even if they don't give 70s to overstrikes), VAMS/varieties that PCGS/NGC doesn't recognize, and cheaper coins
3. NGC/PCGS for most coins where it makes sense to pay the grading fee (i.e. the coin will be at least worth $20 more graded vs not graded...some also say that a good value cutoff is $200 for slabbing-unless it's bullion, which is usually only worth it if you get a 70, and that is not easy to determine for most looking at raw bullion)
4. Leave it raw for most bullion, modern coins, and many collector coins under $200

 

You left out SEGS.

 

Exactly!

 

As an ANA member I submit coins that have potential value to NGC. If I have a Morgan that's a VAM or an error coin, I send it to ANACS. By the way, I read somewhere that ANACS and ICG literally traded companies. Everybody from ANACS became ICG and everybody from ICG became ANACS. Don't know if that's true, I'm getting old and my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but I believe the trade happened right around when ANACS changed from the small slabs to the ones with the rounded tops.

 

So you're saying that, according to the Kool-aid drinkers, everyone who doesn't drink the Kool-aid is not worthy?

 

Ok, so I have a possibly high-grade 1943 D/D Steel Cent. If it's MS64, it's around $400,; $1,000 for 65; and $6,000+ at 66.

Many of you said use ANACS for varieties, but but others said NGC/PCGS for high values. Here, I have a high value variety...suggestions?

 

I am thinking this is at the very least a 65.

 

ANACS is popular because they recognize a lot of lesser known varieties and VAMs. This particular variety is well known and popular. I assume this is one that pcgs or ngc would identify. Look in their pop reports and see. If it’s in there they will identify it.

 

Use NGC or PCGS

 

News flash: ANACS & ICG are virtually identical in what they do except ICG does not usually do ancients anymore. Each does all the varieties that the top two don't recognize. The staff at both services is EQUAL and in many ways MUCH BETTER than the top two services. The senior staff at ANACS & ICG have been authenticating and grading coins before most of the senior staff at PCGS & NGC got out of high school! Both these second-tier services have a strong following and are less expensive and faster than the top two.

Now IMO, it is very unfortunate that ICG and ANACS do not get the recognition they deserve but there is a SIMPLE REASON for this : A coin in a PCGS or NGC slab is usually priced higher!

 

Yes, and for a coin like the person just described, having it in a PCGS or NGC holder has it's advantages... not only a better price in some cases (maybe in this case) but also a wider availability for those who do registry. You can not just discount what the effect of one company over another or their customer base for some items is if you ever want to sell it.

The only issue between these two is that some people seem to have the idea that NGC grades about a grade higher than PCGS (at least for some coin series) and thus their prices realized for the same grade may be lower than some might pay for PCGS. But then there are other cases where it seems that the NGC ones actually do bring strong prices.

 

I know in the past...ANACS was the preferred choice for lesser known varieties and VAMs and such. Things that PCGS and NGC didn't see to care about. That was sort of their niche. Has ICG closed that gap then and basically offer an identical service?

Or, was my belief simply inaccurate?

 

I feel like this depends on the series. Each company has it's own grading standards and uses that to evaluate and grade coins. They are not playing with the same rule book...and each are different than the ANA standards (despite NGC being the "official" TPG of the ANA). PCGS may have tougher standards for one series while NGC for the next.

Why PCGS is viewed as "overall superior" by a lot of people I don't know. Probably better marketing.

 

That is probably true. I have not seen across the board increases in grade from NGC vs PCGS on coins, nor have I seen the coin prices I did observe for both be consistently higher at PCGS. And marketing does count. I imagine the budget for advertising and marketing to increase revenues for both companies is pretty hefty. Because neither can afford to ride on their own 'coat-tails' as far as brand and selling/upselling, getting and maintaining customer loyalty, bringing out new products, etc. is concerned.

But maybe PCGS is not just viewed as "overall superior" by people, but it could be a result of targeted opportunities that PCGS took to get and maintain brand loyalty. I was neither until recently, and I think I like PCGS better because I like the slabs better. I have not had any graded there, and only had 5 graded coins at NGC, which most are already sold. I did not like one experience I had over one coin which they basically ruined and did not come thru with what they said they would to finish 'fixing' it, so that IMO is a point against them. But honestly, if I liked the slabs better at NGC and was trying to keep all my collection (in areas I am attempting to do so, not the ones I just have for whatever) as aesthetically cohesive, then I would have gone to NGC for that vs PCGS. But I do like PCGS's slabs better for the most part.

 

CamaroDMD, posted: "I know in the past...ANACS was the preferred choice for lesser known varieties and VAMs and such. Things that PCGS and NGC didn't see to care about. That was sort of their niche. Has ICG closed that gap then and basically offer an identical service? Or, was my belief simply inaccurate?"

Please just take this response as an informed opinion as I was not around at the time. IMO, ANACS had better overall graders than ICG. I know for a fact that they have always been good with varieties and new discoveries that the Big Two would refuse to certify until they could see another example. This happened to me personally when they would not certify an AU, "naked-eye" overdate "discovery coin" that is now published in the literature.

Since around 2008, I consider ANACS and ICG to be equals; however, I have a strong preference for one of them.

 

Does anyone use SEGS? I knew a dealer who hated TPG and would suggests SEGS. I am not sure why, maybe he was rebellious.

 

I believe SEGS (Sovereign Entities Grading Service) out of Chattanooga, TN is, I believe, owned by a coin company also out of Chattanooga.

 

Some people might use them, but quite a few aren’t fans. There was a big thread on this forum a year or two ago where someone allegedly had SEGS downgrade an expensive coin but take no responsibility for it. We also found out from that thread that at some point SEGS switched their corporate/LLC status and that all coins slabbed before that point have no guarantee (even though the owner is still the same and the holders look the same).

There was also a case of an item lost by them with allegedly no positive resolution.

Others have questioned their grading consistency.

I personally wasn’t too thrilled after an encounter with the owner at a coin show. After standing for a while at his table and being ignored, I finally got to ask his opinion on a coin graded by his company. He wasn’t very interested in answering my question; even though the coin was in his slab, he didn’t care about that series, so it felt that I was just a nuisance to him.

 

I feel the big 2 are about 80% accurate most of the time. Every once in a while ok get a submission I for the most part agree with pcgs I feel napalms a few coins just to get resubmissions. I’ve had 20 coin submissions that everything was basically straight with the exception of maybe one borderline I tried to slide in and the last 3 got detailed for the most ridiculous reasons. Right now on the newest latest acquisitions I have a trade dollar. I think they were tough on it at 35 strictly original and great surfaces and eye appeal. I had it at 40. The first time they detailed it as environmental damage. I’ve had some coins come back details for 3 different reasons and none make sense. Qc environment damaged and cleaned. Simply cause they don’t like the toning. I had a large cent I sent in I cracked out of a pcgs vf details environment damage slab on the chance it would go straight. First at pcgs was tooled. Then counterfeit. Then ngc graded it straight vf 20 and I made $500 on it. I get sick of the unending inconsistencies at pcgs and often prefer ngcs grading. I personally like pcgs holders better. And they sell better. I’ve cracked out a few anacs and sent to pcgs. Had a gold $1 au 53 anacs come back as 58. Which I didn’t see. Thought it was accurate at 53. And a silver 3c anacs 62 pcgs 64. I thought a 63 upgrade was very likely but not a 64. On the other side I have a trade dollar I paid big for in an old white anacs I can’t get a straight grade on now. Keeps getting qc / at details. Which is bs. As to icg I know not much other than what I seen it means I can’t grade