Grading Kennedy's...for Grade and/or Cameo

Me to, I have found something that is reachable for me. Here is the thing, what does one consider rare..These SMS coins in Deep Cameo are rare in the sense that they can be $1000 or greater halves. I am not sure what the definition of rare is in this case, but there certainly are not thousands of the good ones. I am not sure if you have ever seen this book, but if interested, it is money well spent. This is how I determined that the SMS sets I was going through for halves had other treasures in them. The photography in this is spectacular.

I paid over $40 for mine and now I see wizzard has it for 1/2 that. Bummer.

http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/product/cameo-brilliant-proof-coinage-1950-1970-era.html

 

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Does the book actually discuss the technology and history of the mint in detail? I'm not terribly interested in just another price guide.

 

Oh that is exactly what it does! The prices are dated anyway. He has a newer one called

A Guide Book of Franklin & Kennedy Half Dollars 2nd Edition




I tend to use both for Kennedy information but on the SMS coins in general, this one is a must have. It explains why they are rare etc. It is not just about SMS coins though, it goes over cameo coinage in general from the 50's through the 1970. It is money well spent in my opinion, especially for the photography.

 

OK, thanks for the recommendations. The reason I say the SMS coins with cameo aren't rare is because at any given time, you can find a handful of examples for sale, graded by PCGS and NGC. In the middle MS grades (65-66), they're quite affordable. After that, 67-68, you're talking big bucks, at least for me. And not all the highest grade coins have cameo.

So whether your coins are worth those big bucks on the slabbed market depends on the number grade the slabber gives them, not necessarily on the cameo. I discovered for myself, that I was perfectly happy with an MS65 or 66 coin with a strong cameo - I could never really tell the difference between those two grades on the coins I examined, so I just called them "Middle MS".

 

Agreed, but most do not even really know about them. There are cherry pickers for sure but as time goes on, the rare factor gets even more obvious. The book goes into more detail. One of the things I remember is that "somewhere around 90% of SMS sets have been gone through by dealers looking to pick these out". I tend to believe that and have noticed on some of my bids on Feebay, that others notice also. I have got lucky on a few, but I am not the only one looking. I have had better luck just buying the sets at coin stores. SP67 and up are BIG bucks for sure, SP68's being the top of the range for SMS and extremely rare. I have not seen any real figures other than the book above but lets say for giggles that 0.1 % would get DCAM and 0.5% would get CAM. I am not sure of those numbers and they might be double that but still. With mintages in the 2-3 million range, and less than 50 in SP68 DCAM, that is rare.

Yeah I do the same and that is why I am trying to learn what is the difference between a 65/66/67/68. I have some slabbed but no 68 and I can not use my 1964's as they were proofs. These coins are totally different. I will buy DCAM SP65 coins all day for the right price but those are salty also depending on contrast.

 

No, Doug, I do not give up. I believe that you are wrong and out of touch with the coin market, having not collected in years. However, to continue this debate with you would be equivalent of trying to make a calf have kittens--neither one of us is going to change their respective minds. So believe what you choose to believe, and so shall I.

 

Are the pictures better? Are they good enough to get a good idea of grade? I do not want to buy another camera if not....

 

If you are going to take this hobby seriously, you still need a better camera. The photos are better, but minimally so.

 

I think your camera is managing the close-ups OK, but it's the other equipment you need: a copy stand and some small lights. Then you can lay the coin flat and adjust the lights to your liking. I prefer fluorescent lights for shiny modern coins - they highlight luster better. Some guys use special techniques for proofs with cameo - a black baffle that gets reflected in the fields etc., but I haven't tried it.

 

I will see what kind of camera to get, I borrowed this samsung and it is ok for my needs, as for the light, I have a LED, as for a stand that is something I have to work on.

 

It is a good book if you like fiction.

 

Its a great book, the prices in it are a bit much but the information about each mintage year is pretty darn good. What is fiction besides the prices? I see his ads in Coinworld and he must be getting that kind of money for them. He is very knowledgeable about these I think.

 

Try diffusing the light by photographing the coins on a black background through the top of a Lamp Shade with strong lighting on the outside of the shade.

You might be able to create a good cameo contrast such as what Rick has in his books.

As for the "books", these were written with the sole intent of being able to sell Cameo Contrast coins at a premium.

Truly deep cameo coins have their own following with their own pricing structures.

As for Ethans coins, its extremely difficult to grade a proof or SMS coin or any coin from a photograph. Ballpark estimates can be arrived at but the coin must be viewed in hand since these coin are typically the victims of hairlines and fine die poliching hairlines. Rarely do they have actual contact marks except under the bumbling of some mint employee or miscalibrated Mint packaging equipment.

 

Nice pic! Did they all come in one (awesome) proof set or did you buy them separately?

 

That is a good idea, I used a roll of paper once but that did not seem to help much. Maybe with a new camera it will.

I can see that but they should be at a premium so why not. The realized prices for these seem to agree with his line of thinking.

I am starting to learn just that.

Hairlines for sure, I can see them at 40x, what is the standard? Naked eye? I just want to learn how to grade them somewhat accruately if I am going to be purchasing them.

Your pics of the 56 coins are very nice but as pictures go the frost really can only be seen in hand I think. The penny does not appear to have any?

 

You have to ask yourself, as I did: at what distance do you most appreciate your coins. The closer you zoom in on any coin, the more defects you see. There is no such thing as a perfect coin. 70 grades don't mean perfect by any stretch - look at the metal with enough magnification and you'll find copious anomalies.

So at what magnification do the hairlines and spotting and planchet flaws really bother you? Is cameo contrast more important than those things, or less? Is a lower grade cameo coin better than a higher grade non-cameo coin? Do the aesthetics vary from one issue to another?

Those are the kinds of questions an astute collector has to answer for himself, and some of those answers are only going to come from purchasing mistakes. I made my share of those mistakes, and have no reason to believe I won't make them again.

 

Have you seen Rick's "Premiums"?

 

Yes, I did not say I bought from him as but he is very knowledgeable about the series, I can see why he wrote the book on the halves.