Grading help needed - 1965 SMS Roosevelt Dime

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by mikenoodle, Apr 2, 2017.


Does this coin grade

  1. Cameo

  2. Deep Cameo

    0 vote(s)
  3. No Cameo

  1. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    Hi all. There was a recent thread on a gentleman who was thinking about breaking up a no-S proof set and after listening to the thoughts on yes vs no I opened three sets I had bought for the purpose of harvesting coins from.

    In opening up my 1965 SMS, I found a dime that IMHO has not only cameo, but potentially deep cameo contrast and didn't think much of it, after all, it's a clad Roosie, nobody cares, but then I looked up the pop data and NGC had graded exactly 1 1965 Roosevelt Dime as Deep Cameo and that one at MS-66.

    Give me your opinions, I apologize in advance for the poor iPhone pics. IMG_2114.JPG IMG_2114.JPG IMG_2115.JPG

    Attached Files:

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  3. green18

    green18 Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Forgive me Mike, but I'm not seein' 'cameo' but it does appear to be at least a '65 (ones humble opinion)........crap shoot with the NGC guys.
    mikenoodle likes this.
  4. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    I fear this is a case where better images (preferably outside of the flip) will be necessary for anyone to be able to give anything resembling a meaningful opinion. Sure, one can attempt to read between the lines, but considering your mention of pops, I can only assume even educated guesses are not what you're looking for.
    Insider and dwhiz like this.
  5. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    The pictures are really tricky because the contrast is difficult to capture with my iPhone.

    The pictures I have posted attempt to show the frosting on the devices since I can't seem to get the black and white
  6. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Unless I've misunderstood you, switching an image to B&W on your iPhone could be as simple as hitting a few "buttons" under editing, but perhaps this isn't the case if it's an older model?

    I do understand and can certainly respect the difficulty you're having capturing what you'd like, but with coins, and I'm sure you already know this, it's always better to play it safe than sorry when either sharing an option or giving advice.
  7. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    Not a black and white image, books, the black and white of the cameo contrast.

    The backgrounds on this coin are mirrored and the devices are frosted.
  8. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Hi Mike,

    Your coin resembles cameo quality for the date, but I'm not sure it will get the CAM designation. Better photos would help for sure.

    1965 SMS dimes are very hard to come by with what I consider to be good contrast. Getting good photos of this date is particularly difficult, as I'm not aware of any example that is truly deep (my opinion - and that goes for the NGC UCAM as well). Below is a good example from my inventory . . . these coins exhibit more die polish than one would normally expect, and the fields are more satiny than watery.

    - Mike at ToughCOINS

  9. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    If I wasn't aware of what cameo is, I wouldn't have opened my mouth in the first place. ;)

    Then I did take it wrong. Sometimes B&W can make certain aspects stand out more, and is what I incorrectly assumed you were getting at. My apologies.
  10. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    IMG_2124.JPG IMG_2129.JPG IMG_2130.JPG Ok, so I took it out of the 2x2 so that I could get better pics.

    It seems that distance helps to highlight the contrast between the devices and fields.
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  11. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    I wasn't sure what you meant, sorry. I am not particularly great with photography, especially when trying to capture coins.
  12. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    I realize that my photos suck (to say the very least) but I was hoping that I could get some input.

  13. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    Based on the first set of photos I voted 'no'. The second set of photos appear to show some of the frost better but aren't really even close to good enough to say that would get a cameo designation. I'd recommend going and taking a look at some coins on Ebay, etc that are 65' SMS that have cameo aspects yet didn't get the designation. I've seen plenty of coins from all denominations except the cent really (from 65-67 SMS sets) that appear cameo yet didn't get the designation. Personally I feel that the big two TPG's under attribute cameo's from 65-67 SMS coins. I believe that's because they hold the SMS coins to the exact same standard as regular cameo proofs for designation. Imo which isn't really totally fair as the dies/plancets were not prepared with anywhere near the level of care actual proof coins receive.

    Anyway here's an example below, a coin from PCGS's website SP68 yet they felt wasn't strong enough for a cameo designation.

    And here's another they felt was, this one SMS67Cam for comparison
    mikenoodle and micbraun like this.
  14. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    If it looks special to you, I'd go ahead and submit it - what do you have to lose? Grading fees? You've already removed the Dime from the 2x2, now just complete the form and submit it... we'll be waiting for the results :)
    ddddd and mikenoodle like this.
  15. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I'll second that motion. Considering it's a tougher coin to find with cameo, you might as well try, especially if you have other items to submit or can combine it with someone else's submission.
  16. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot

    I see what you mean, Mike. This coin has some hurdles to clear if it is to be slabbed a cameo.

    I also see what type of contrast it might take.

    Thanks all for your help and your opinions. I know I didn't give you much to work with, but you've helped me nonetheless. Thanks for the responses that you offered. Thanks
    ddddd likes this.
  17. JustinTnasty

    JustinTnasty New Member

    Can yall tell me about my coin
  18. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Perhaps, but you're going to need to provide a little info first. We're not mind readers.
  19. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    I have a 65 Kennedy half SMS that also did not get cameo from PCGS but looks more cameo than the 65 nickel that did get the CAM designation. I agree they are all over the place with giving the CAMs.
  20. JustinTnasty

    JustinTnasty New Member


    Attached Files:

  21. l.cutler

    l.cutler Member

    Is this the same damaged quarter you posted before?
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