Grading Companies

Discussion in 'Numismatic Resources' started by GDJMSP, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    NGC

    "NGC offers several submission tiers and services to meet the needs of coin collectors and professionals alike. It is necessary to choose the option that corresponds to the value and category of coins you are submitting as well as the turnaround time you desire. You may submit most US and world coins for grading."

    NGC


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    NCS - Numismatic Conservation Services

    "Over time a coin can change in appearance due to environmental conditions, mishandling and natural forces of decay. You can take an active role in preserving coins for future generations to admire by contacting Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS) so that NCS’ specialists may assist quickly in identifying damaging conditions, and professionally conserve and stabilize your coins.

    The expertise of NCS technicians has long been needed in numismatics. Not to be confused with undesirable cleaning, proper numismatic conservation involves examination, scientific analysis and a reliance upon an extensive base of numismatic knowledge to determine the nature of a coin’s state of preservation and the extent of any damage. NCS is uniquely qualified to meet the conservation needs of the hobby."

    NCS


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    PCGS

    "Grading is a way of determining the physical condition of a coin. Grades range from Poor (almost completely worn out) to Perfect Uncirculated (a coin with absolutely no wear and no flaws of any kind). Over 99.9% of all coins fall somewhere between these two extremes.

    The grade is a sort of "shorthand" for describing the condition of a coin. With experience and the aid of the appropriate books, many people can learn to grade with a moderate degree of accuracy. Few people, however, can ever learn to grade with the precision required to become a professional. The grade of a coin goes a long way in determining the coin's value, and sometimes a seemingly insignificant and easily overlooked flaw can make thousands of dollars of difference."

    PCGS


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    ANACS

    "Our team of unbiased expert graders renders an opinion on a coin's authenticity and grade. ANACS certifies authentic coins only. You may submit:
    Regular issue U.S. coinage, commemoratives, and patterns
    A wide variety of world coins: most coins from 1600 to present
    The widest range of error and variety coins of any grading service
    Problem coins (cleaned, corroded, damaged, repaired, etc.) are given a detail grade with the major problem listed
    Hard Time and Civil War Tokens and So-Called Dollars
    A selection of ancient Roman coins "

    ANACS


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    ICG

    "We credit all but $5 (processing fee) towards future grading if we no-grade a coin. Call for more details.
    Listed on "The Grey Sheet" and "The Blue Sheet."
    Quick turnaround times to preserve cash flows.
    Sonically sealed, tamper-evident, attractive holder with our SECUREGRAMTM hologram system.
    And, most important ... expert, consistent grading by the most respected names in the business."

    ICG


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  3. Chris Winkler

    Chris Winkler Member

    Which of the grading companies is better for Civil War related tokens & such from that time period? I have been using ANACs recently, and it's a higher cost for these types of coins due to having to research them. Any and all suggestions are appreciated!
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  4. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years

    My guess would be NGC.
     
    Chris Winkler likes this.
  5. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    ANAC would be my choice, good luck.
     
    Chris Winkler likes this.
  6. coinquest1961

    coinquest1961 Well-Known Member

    I like, and slab with, PCGS.
     
    Chris Winkler likes this.
  7. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Active Member

    To each their own, assume mostly based on experience and to some extent, reputation and value. That said, have noticed more recently that many NGC values listed on their website (for coins in their holders, of course...same as PCGS) are higher than PCGS, and some not just by $10 or $20. Also, I've changed to preferring the white, 4-prong NGC holder, now. I'll address the pros and cons I've found with actual grading experience issues for a later post.

    Also, a curiosity, I see way more coins cocked (not straight-up) by more than a little, turned one way or another, etc, in PCGS holders than in NGC holders. Had a seller say it can happen with certain vibration/handling during shipping, but I find this explanation a bit far-fetched knowing how secure they seem to be (far from the old rattlers or the 2x2 snaps), and anyway, why so many more cocked coins in PCGS holders than NGC...? I think it happens before shipping...somehow...and isn't caught. Maybe am missing something. Anyone...?
     
  8. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    So, is this a re-post (Mar 2006) that no one comment on? Like the info but a little confused by the original post date.
     
    ZoidMeister and Stevearino like this.
  9. Phil's Coins

    Phil's Coins Well-Known Member

    OK, I'm confused - why a 15 year old post.
    Stay safe
    Semper Fi
    Phil
     
  10. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    @GDJMSP

    Doug: Any different thoughts 15 years later?
     
  11. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    They can put whatever values they want, doesn't mean their coins aren't selling for less which they are
     
  12. BJBII

    BJBII Metrologist, CSSBB

    Alas . . . (some thoughts)
    1. nobody grades the graders.
    2. no outside service determines the proficiency level of the TPGs nor their evaluators.
    3. I do not think the evaluators sign their work (opinion.)
    4. I do not believe the experience, ability, not the competence of individual evaluators is available to the customers.
    5. While (we assume) TPGs do intra-agency evaluations, it is unknown if there are any formal inter-agency evaluations. This is beyond the rare occasion that some individual might send the same coin to more than one TPG. That is not a formal comparison.
    6. As far as I know, TPGs do not provide any specifics on their evaluations that might show how a grade was determined.
     
  13. Phil's Coins

    Phil's Coins Well-Known Member

    The above are CORRECT. I have tried at both NGC and PCGS to find out about a grade given to a couple of coins that came back extremely low grades and on one coin the coin came back as "unable to conserve", I broke it out and sent it to their competitor AFTER i rinsed it in distilled water sent it in an it came back MS67???? I called PCGS to attempt to find out why and the response I received is "it is up to the individual grader" I just hope he/she doesn't get anymore of my coins to grade.
    Stay Safe
    Phil
     
  14. mike estes

    mike estes Active Member

    i like ICG, they have always treated me right as well as my coins. i know this thread started in 2006 (thanks paddyman98) but i wanted to throw my 3 cents in and bring a little light to ICG. everyone has their own experiences with grading company's. ive used them or bought slabbed coins graded by them all and i like ICG. good luck to yawl
     
  15. GoldBug999

    GoldBug999 Well-Known Member

    Actually, you could consider CAC to be a grader of graders in that they accept or reject the assigned grade on a coin. Technically, they are not grading the graders, but they may be considered a grader of each coin they assess, so they are grading the grader on a per coin basis.

    Of course, everyone doesn't agree with all the CAC decisions.
     
    Insider likes this.
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I didn't offer any thoughts or opinions in this thread, I merely posted basic information about the TPGs.

    That said, no, my opinions of the TPGs have not changed in the past 15 years.
     
  17. Phil's Coins

    Phil's Coins Well-Known Member

    I can only offer an opinion given to me Mr. Charles Hayes who was in many ways my mentor. Charles owned the only creditable coin shop in Springfield, MO for 39+ years and was known as one of the most trusted and forthright individuals ever to trade in coins. Charles told me of the first time he had ever heard of CAC and he was at a large coin show in Chicago when a representative of CAC was going form booth to booth offering the Beans for $5.00 and telling those that purchased them that it would only increase the value of their coins. I have no way of knowing the strength of Charles' statement but knowing him as I did, I have every reason to believe him. He to my knowledge never purchased a coin with the green bean. I own two of them and ONLY because I was able to purchase both of them at then Greysheet prices. None of the individuals I correspond with or have dealing with purchase CAC stickered coins for anything above Greysheet or Bluebook prices.
    Stay safe
    Phil
     
    BJBII likes this.
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

  19. BJBII

    BJBII Metrologist, CSSBB

    In my opinion, CAC does not evaluate TPGs. At least I have not seen anything to support that they do. They basically only offer an opinion on a previously graded coin. Not too different than if I sent a coin to more than one TPG, or the people posting here asking others if they think a grade on a particular coin was correct.

    By "grading the grader," I mean a separate entity who may determine if the TPG has demonstrated the ability to evaluate a certain coin within standard industry-accepted guidelines. I do not think the various TPGs use identical and documented acceptance criteria when arriving at a grade. Each TPG uses its own. Plus I am unaware that they provide information on how they arrived at a particular grade for an individual coin.

    I think the TPGs should be audited by an outside party to determine if the TPG is using industry-accepted criteria, following its own procedures, documenting results, and demonstrating the proficiency to grade any particular coin.
     
  20. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If I’m not totally out to lunch, CAC only accepts coins graded by PCGS and NGC. So, in a way, they have evaluated TPGs.
     
    slackaction1 and ZoidMeister like this.
  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    :(

    I've graded for ANACS, NGC, and two other TPGS (including the FIRST ONE at INSAB) that are no longer around. Presently I grade at ICG. IMO, the grading by the four major TPGS is pretty much the same. The big money charged by the top two for grading and conservation is because they can get it - their slabbed coins are more popular. Their are incorrectly graded coins (many with their problems ignored) in all TPGS slabs and that includes those with a bean! :jawdrop:


    BJBII, posted some thoughts:
    1. nobody grades the graders. The graders are monitored internally.
    2. no outside service determines the proficiency level of the TPGs nor their evaluators. True, but CAC tries and YOU "the public" are the real watchdogs.
    3. I do not think the evaluators sign their work (opinion.) Internal records record the graders.
    4. I do not believe the experience, ability, not the competence of individual evaluators is available to the customers. The ability and experience is available to ANYONE who works at it. Graders learned their craft before turning professional.
    5. While (we assume) TPGs do intra-agency evaluations, it is unknown if there are any formal inter-agency evaluations. This is beyond the rare occasion that some individual might send the same coin to more than one TPG. That is not a formal comparison. ?? At times, some different TPGS's show coins to other services.
    6. As far as I know, TPGs do not provide any specifics on their evaluations that might show how a grade was determined. All services have a review service. At least one service (ICG) commonly discusses coins with customers. I've talked with several today and in two cases asked customers to send more coins in FOR FREE so I could help them. The top two services do not have the time to mess with you. :(
    Phil's Coins, posted: "The above are CORRECT. I have tried at both NGC and PCGS to find out about a grade given to a couple of coins that came back extremely low grades and on one coin the coin came back as "unable to conserve", I broke it out and sent it to their competitor AFTER i rinsed it in distilled water sent it in an it came back MS67???? I called PCGS to attempt to find out why and the response I received is "it is up to the individual grader" I just hope he/she doesn't get anymore of my coins to grade." ;)


    Phil's Coins, posted: "I can only offer an opinion given to me Mr. Charles Hayes who was in many ways my mentor. Charles owned the only creditable coin shop in Springfield, MO for 39+ years and was known as one of the most trusted and forthright individuals ever to trade in coins. Charles told me of the first time he had ever heard of CAC and he was at a large coin show in Chicago when a representative of CAC was going form booth to booth offering the Beans for $5.00 and telling those that purchased them that it would only increase the value of their coins. I have no way of knowing the strength of Charles' statement but knowing him as I did, I have every reason to believe him. He to my knowledge never purchased a coin with the green bean. I own two of them and ONLY because I was able to purchase both of them at then Greysheet prices. None of the individuals I correspond with or have dealing with purchase CAC stickered coins for anything above Greysheet or Bluebook prices."

    Many major, long-term dealers I knew refused to use TPGS's or CAC. Most do now. ;) You don't need beans if you know how to grade and buy slabs you agree with.
     
    80s_Kid and charley like this.
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