Grading Anomalies Thread: Weird Grades, Strange Pricing

Thought a thread on curious auction results and TPG was merited after I saw this:

https://www.ha.com/c/search-results...+231&Ntt=1923-D+MS+66+Saint&ic4=SortBy-071515

All the sales take place in August 2019....I get the 1923-D Saint in the OGH selling for a premium, but that much ? Why the others selling for so much more than the others ? Is it strange to see a pretty savvy group (HA bidders) vary their pricing by 30% ($1,000 or so) for the same-grade of coin, even if you can determine a slight over- or under-grading ?

People were definitely buying the coins, not the grades. I'm just wondering if you guys can pick out any pattern to the final auction prices and how the coins look (and/or were graded).

 

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People like paying a premium for older holders because they often assume they were more-conservatively graded. In fact, most of those have already been cracked out and resubmitted, and the vast majority of what’s left won’t upgrade at today’s standards

 

Strange to this grading novice, but not an expert like you, GD.

What do you mean...."same variety" and how are you telling that from the die scratches (and how are you telling which are die scratches and which are bag marks, etc. ?).

You have a sharp eye, GD. Not sure how quickly you saw these differences but I'm only seeing some of these differences after spending a few minutes on each of these coins.

 

But what IS strange -- at least to me -- is that all the coins in that 2-month window are MS-66 or MS-66+ and you have a RANGE of $4,000 from lowest to highest.....and those 2 price points aren't even outliers, there are plenty of sales around $2,500 and $3,500 and then the few (2) that go for $5,000 and up.

Normally, I'd expect Saints -- pretty well-defined, grading-wise -- to be 2 grades different if you are moving by almost $4,000 and close to 200% higher in price range. Even if you exclude the 2 highest, you still have some coins selling for over 50% more ($1,200+) than others.

I'll have to go over the coins and compare a bit more, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me and screams 1 or 2 of these are light-years better/worse than the rest.

 

Right, understood...but what about the difference between the same-graded (or only a "+" deisgnation difference) between those selling for $2,300 or so and those selling for $3,600 or so ?

That's 50% difference. That's not the vagaries of bidding or a big enough difference if the + designation is present on one and not the other.

 

Sometimes its just the timing, and venue of the auctions, and bidding wars, etc...

 

Understood, but there were enough sales in July/August such that timing isn't a factor. Some of the sales appear to be on the same day. And the difference in pricing for the exact same grade is big enough that it is NOT just a bidding variation on that day or for that particular coin.

 

I'm a little late on this thread.
The 23-D is a weird saint because it tones well & can also have great luster.
They are also common & available in very nice condition.

These things CAC &/or + as well as being offered in a variety of holders.

As you have noticed, they can vary in price greatly in MS66.

Here is the one I settled on. (66+/CAC)
Spotlight luster surrounded by toning
The range is probably about $2500 for a 66C to $5800 for a 66+/CAC

 

Thanks for chiming in, SGC.

You think even a "C" in MS66 for the 1923-D can be had for $2,500 ? Unless it is misgraded, I would think that should be the range for a quality MS65.

Appreciate your comments (and GD's !!) as a 1923-D is high on my shopping list for FUN.

 

SG Collector, where did you get your MS66+ Saint and when did you buy it ?

 

Wow, that's a pretty big spread for all within the 66-range. And that assumes a 66C is clearly identified as such and a 66A or coin that merits a 66+ or 66CAC is clearly visibily better. That's not always the case, though I think with Saints it's a bit clearer (working on a post to demonstrate this).

I get it because if a coin is close to or has a shot at a re-grading and reaching a 66+CAC or 66CAC, it's right below a 67 which probably sells for $12,000 give-or-take.

 

I'll check out some 23-D's online tonight and maybe post something tomorrow for you to check out.

 

Great....I scanned about 6-7 of them, the one GDJSMP commented on. I did a little experiment and when I have time will post the results here.

 

Different year, same coin, same mint: I was reading an article on 1927-D's and the article said that a buyer wanted a CAC 1927-D so John Albanese got a presumably weak PCGS 66 1927-D downgraded by NGC to a 65+ and then his company CAC'ed it.

Personally, I think that's playing games. TRYING for a lower grade so you can then get a strong-for-the-grade CAC sticker...which you control ?

 

On the ebays auctions I've seen green CAC common date coins sell well above the next higher grade and gold CAC sell at prices 2-3 grades higher. I'd a think at a certain point the buyer should just buy a coin in the higher grade, but what do I know...

 

It's rare that a Green CAC will jump the price ABOVE the next grade level for the auctions/coins I've seen intensely; I haven't seen or studied enough of the Gold CAC impacts.