Grade this '40-S Jefferson Nickel

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by eddiespin, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Yeah but that's what I'm saying, that's my evidence, those parts of the strike that are OK, crisp. Those dome windows and MONTICELLO are crisp as heck compared to mine. That die I believe was just shot in the middle of the building. As such, that coin didn't have a chance at a crisp strike, there, as there was no detail, there, to begin with, on that die...just deterioration. My die was in much better shape, there. Because the pillar steps below the troubled area, and the dome and those dome windows above the troubled area are crisp, I see that troubled area as just die deterioration. I don't think that coin you posted had a chance at a crisp strike in that troubled area, for those reasons...that die was gone, there. Even on my coin, you can see that same kind of die deterioration throughout the building, although it's not as pervasive as on the coin you posted. I don't know; does that make sense?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not really, because the die wears evenly. And the highest points, which is the building, are the last to wear. So if the steps are still clean, and they are, then the die is not worn out.
     
  4. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    I didn't know that about the even die wear, but that's evidently why we're reaching different conclusions (we're starting at different assumptions). Now I have another question. Do you mean to say that if that coin you posted had been struck cleanly or stronger or with more evenly-distributed pressure by that die, that central area would show, for example, the detail mine shows? I guess that's how I'm hearing you.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    My previous post was a bit confusing now that I re-read it. The answer to your question is basically yes. But to straighten out what I was saying - yes, for the most part a die suffers wear fairly evenly with use. The exception to that is the high point areas. These areas are actually the lowest areas of the dies, so they are the last to fill with metal as coins are struck. And if the strike pressure of the press is set a bit too low or if the dies are not adjusted properly, then there is little metal that ever reaches these low areas to even cause any wear.

    When a die wears out, it is always the highest points on the die (that correspond to the lowest points on the coin) that suffer the most wear. Normally this area is near the edge or rim of the coin - the legends and outer edges of the devices. It's kind of like if you punched a doughnut hole out of the center of a coin - what you have remaining are the ares that suffer wear the first and the most. And the wear is distrubted fairly evenly in these areas.

    And you have to remember, that when dies are set into the coin press the alignment and spacing between the dies is critical. The faces of the obv & rev dies have to be precisely parallel to each other, perfectly aligned so that the edges meet precisely and set at the perfect spacing (distance between them when the press closes) or the coin will be weakly struck in some area. Where that area is on the coin depends entirely on whether or not the dies are set adjusted perfectly.

    If they are adjusted perfectly, but the prsssure is set just a little too low, then the high points of the coins will be weakly struck. And the vast majority of the time those high points will be within that doughnut hole that I mentioned earlier. On a Jeff, that would be Monticello and the center of Jefferson's head.

    Now Jeffs were almost always struck with the strike pressure dialed down a bit - set too low. They did this on purpose because the hardness of the metal caused premature catostrophic die failure if the pressure was set so that the coins were fully struck. This is why we so rarely see a Jeff with full details on Monticello, or the bust for that matter. When you find a Jeff with good detail on Monticello - meaning that the portico, windows, and widow's walk rail all have good detail - you have found a true rarity.

    One other point for the sake of clarity - the area of the steps on the dies - that wears out long before the area of the building. That is because the steps are higher on the die than the center of the building. So if the steps are fully struck, then the die cannot have undue wear in the area of the building - it is impossible because the step area wears out long before the center of the building does.

    Now, hopefully, it makes sense.
     
  6. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Oh you bet it makes sense! In fact, you answered some follow-up questions I didn't even know I had when I asked the question until after I read this reply (and I know that may or may not make much sense). Seeing a lot of things a lot clearer, now, though, Doug. Thanks. :thumb:
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page