Grade Opinions Wanted

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by mikenoodle, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    I recently acquired this 1921-S Buffalo Nickel and like many here I would like grade opinions on the coin.

    The area near the leg that I posted pics of appears to be done planchets flaw, my guess is a lamination. Your opinions on this are welcome as well.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  3. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I vote obverse VF30, reverse VF20, net VF25. I believe it to be delamination on the reverse, but the lighting/blurriness makes it hard.
     
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  4. David Leu

    David Leu Member

    I think more of Fine F12, Maybe VF
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
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  5. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    VF-20. That's a nice original piece, 21-s is becoming increasingly difficult to find with unaltered surfaces.
     
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  6. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see photos of it out of the 2x2 as there's some glare present in the photos. But based off the pictures and a quick comparison to others both PCGS and NGC graded listed right now on Ebay I'd say VF25 with a chance perhaps of being bumped to VF30.
     
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  7. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    I am more VF 20. Spectacular key date coin. Hoping the reverse is an error
    and not damage. While the obv, is sharper, there is heavy wear on the LI on liberty rim and the 19 in the date. The bottom of the S in cents is a different color than the rest of the lettering. Seems to be gouges in the F and C bottom reverse.
     
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  8. KoinJester

    KoinJester Well-Known Member

    I like to see a faint full horn for the vf20 grade so I'm at F15
     
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  9. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    Imo that is not wear on the 'L' in Liberty, the flatness to the rim and weakness to the 'L' was a result of the lamination/planchet damage on the reverse affecting the strike quality. If you look at an overlay of the obverse and reverse (as seen below) those areas line up, this is also why I believe the reverse damage is not PMD and it would straight grade.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
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  10. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    Bump


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  11. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    By ANA Grading Guide definitions your coin can't be better than F-15.
    REASON: The tip of the horn is worn away.
    BUT
    The TPG's do not appear to be following that rule.
    So ....?
     
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  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    The reverse feature certainly seems a planchet issue and not damage. The grade is a language I don't speak, although it seems roughly equivalent to the most recent PCGS F15 at Heritage.
     
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  13. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    What edition of the ANA grading guide are you basing that off? The older editions have different standards than the newer editions in regards to the horn and the 6th/7th editions show that even VF-20 may not show the horn point.

    16002845_10210559947149209_5030827104431268457_n.jpg
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No grade - planchet flaw, and yes it is severe enough, F details.
     
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  15. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Fine with details on rev. I think that,s a large scrape on the Bison,s back, extending into the field and back legs.
     
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  16. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Fine details. Agree with Doug on the severity of the planchet flaw.
     
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  17. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Does a planchet flaw preclude a straight grade from PCGS or NGC? Seems strange considering that they will grade smashed up piles of cents that won't even fit into a holder with a numerical grade.
     
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  18. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    Doug's comment made me wonder as well.

    The lamination on this coin will keep it from grading? Why?
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    From PCGS -

    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet –
    depends on severity

    Because it is considered damage. And it's not just the TPGs, the ANA follows the same rules as well.
     
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  20. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    but I see PCGS slabs that say "lamination error" all of the time... is this different?
     
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  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    IMHO:
    According to the three grading guides I consulted and the standards of long-time numismatists, the coin is a Fine + w/detached lamination. Here is where the subjectivity, modern TPGS standards, and "art" come into play. The apparent reflectivity of the surface and the loss of details due to the branch mint issue allow the coin to just make VF IMO. As stated above, many Buffalo's graded VF don't have a full horn; but many dealers insist on a full horn when buying (then they ignore it when selling it as a VF :hilarious:). The planchet problem "kills" the coin's value for most, so IMO some professionals would net the grade down to Fine to reflect a commercial value which doubles in price from F to VF.

    I cannot imagine any WORTHWHILE TPGS with intelligent ownership/graders putting this coin in a "details" slab because of the mint flaw. AFAIK, both ICG and ANACS will slab it as a laminated coin.
     
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