Got wolf milk?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Co1ns, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    By the freaking gallon baby :D


    167 of the wee buggers.

    Lots will obviously need a long soak and may only come up fine, but quite few light scrubbers in there too!

    Show us your twins :happy:
    robinjojo, 7Calbrey, Edessa and 13 others like this.
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  3. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Wow!!! That'd be fun! Can't wait to see some!

    I've only got this one currently...
    Appears to be a gaming token crafted in antiquity over a VRBS ROMA type.
    Constantine I, AE3
    Rome Commemorative, 335-337 AD

    Obverse: VRBS ROMA, helmeted head of Roma left, wearing imperial mantle and ornamental necklace.
    Reverse: She-wolf suckling Romulus and Remus, [two stars above].
    Exergue: [unknown]
  4. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    Equally wowed by your lone wolf. If you could only have one!

    Can't begin to imagine the game ...

    Actually "only" have 157 wolves here, as a few phoenixes, a couple soldiers and a campgate seem to have made it in to the mix:

  5. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Nice little hoard!

    Thats pretty cool!
    +VGO.DVCKS and Co1ns like this.
  6. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I cleaned this from out of an unrecognizable slug
  7. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    Dig those red highlights. Traces of gunk?
    galba68 likes this.
  8. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I dunked the whole slug in a jar of lye solution. The red areas seem to be areas where the lye ate through the metal and exposes the underlying copper. I rather like the color myself though
    galba68 and Co1ns like this.
  9. Pellinore

    Pellinore Supporter! Supporter

    I have only two of this type. An ordinary Cyzicus:

    2729 Cyz.jpg

    And an unusual type, that I bought some years ago at a JAZ auction here on CoinTalk.

    2715 mule ct.jpg

    Constantine dynasty, Heraclea, AE3, AD 336-337. VRBS ROMA commemorative. Obv. Helmeted head of Roma left. Rev. Two soldiers with one standard between them. GLOR-IA EXERC-ITVS; // SMHE (this is not an E, but a Greek letter Epsilon, meaning 'Officina 5'.). 17 mm, 1.71 gr.

    A mule with ROMA obverse and GLORIA EXERCITVS reverse! This is an intentionally muled design. There are several types, that only occur from the Heraclea, Constantinople, Cyzicus, and Nicomedia mints - a phenomenon from the Eastern part of the Empire.

    Looking through CoinTalk in search of a Why were these made? (encountering this same coin once or twice - I'm very happy with it, @John Anthony!) I found this in an old thread by @gsimonel:
    "These are much scarcer than the regular Roma coins. Nobody knows for sure why they were minted. Though scarce, there are far too many of them to have been a mistake (a mule). One possibility is that they were minted during the interregnum--the three-month period after the death of Constantine I, but before the ascension of his sons to co-Augusti. But, like I said, nobody really knows for sure."
    robinjojo, Edessa, galba68 and 6 others like this.
  10. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    Very cool indeed @Pellinore

    Though I wasn't lucky enough to find any of those in the lot, I did stumble on this interesting piece


    It appears to be a barbarous imitation.
  11. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Numismatic jack of all trades & specialist in none Moderator

    I do, but lack pictures of it presently. I got a pretty nice one as a gift from @kazuma78. Since it didn't cost me anything, I sent it off to NGC with some other stuff to be slabbed and photographed, on a whim. I'm interested to see the outcome.
    Egry, Co1ns and kazuma78 like this.
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Numismatic jack of all trades & specialist in none Moderator

    Y'all's piles are impressive. :)
    Co1ns likes this.
  13. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    Nice pile! Here's my individual specimen:
    CityComm Roma.png
  14. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Fascinating! I have a VRBS ROMA mule but with a different reverse.

    Constantine I, Rome City Commemorative
    BL Reduced Centenionalis, Heraclea mint
    Struck 347-348 AD
    Obverse: VRBS ROMA, helmeted head of Roma left, wearing imperial mantle and ornamental necklace.
    Reverse: VOT/XX/MVLT/XXX within laurel wreath.
    Exergue: [•SMHB]
    References: RIC VIII 56, LRBC 965, SRCV IV –
    Size: 13.9mm, 2.235g
    Ex: Forum Ancient Coins

    More info in this thread: Urbs Roma/Constantinopolis/2 Soldiers Hybrids
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  15. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    @Limes Nice coin! 335-337 to be specific :happy:

    @Justin Lee these hybrids are nifty still a bit sour I didn't find any

    But cheered up a little when I found this exceptionally (meta)rare R5:


    Constantine II, Rome Commemorative, Arles, 337 CE

    Obverse: VRBS - ROMA | Bust of Roma, wearing imperial cloak, left
    Reverse: She-wolf, standing left, suckling twins; above, two stars, O between; PCONST in ex.
    Reference: RIC VII 415

    No examples on acsearch, none available on vcoins. I know key dates are tacky round these parts, but some folk do appreciate and pay a pretty penny ... Find a couple more of them and that's the whole lot paid for :D
  16. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    two small points

    the term mule has been used several times. these coins are neither mules nor hybrids, but regular issues. In ancients, mules means unintentional pairing.

    RIC 415 is only listed in RIC for workshop S, so P would be an unlisted workshop. The problem being, is this 415? This issue continued into RIC VIII as Arles 8. The later issues are usually smaller (circa 16mm) versus the earlier (circa18 mm). The weights are (usually) different, with the later issues being a bit less. EDIT- this is all very arbitrary since I don't believe there is otherwise a distinction between the two issues- they are actually the same.

    Best way to record this coin is RIC VII Arles 415/ RIC VIII Arles 8
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  17. OutsiderSubtype

    OutsiderSubtype Active Member

    I like mine because it's an Old Rome from the New Rome!


    City Commemorative. Time of Constantine I, circa 333-335 CE. AE3. 18.5mm, 1.9g. Constantinople mint, fifth officina. Obverse: VRBS ROMA, helmeted bust of Roma left. Reverse: She-wolf suckling Romulus and Remus, two stars above. •CONSΕ• in exergue. Van Meter 6a, RIC VII Constantinople 85.
  18. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis Supporter

    A little different from the great Late Roman wolf and twins coins posted in this thread but this is my favorite wolf and twins in my collection.

    20190502120139-fc686b47-me (1).jpg
    Roman Republic AR denarius(19mm, 3.87 g, 9h), anonymous, circa 115 or 114 B.C., Rome mint. Helmeted head of Roma right with curl on left shoulder; below, ROMA; behind, X. Border of dots. / Roma, wearing Corinthian helmet, seated right on pile of shields, holding spear in left hand; at feet, beside pile of shields, helmet; before, she-wolf right, suckling twins; on either side, bird flying. Border of dots. Crawford 287/1

    Ex Andrew McCabe Collection, AM#13206-39, CNG e-Auction 443, 1 May 2019, lot 455, ex Roma V, 23 March 2013, lot 519, ex Mayflower (Herb Sukenik) Collection, Heritage 3019, 25 April 2012, lot 25924, ex George N. Polis M.D. Collection, Bowers & Merena, 10 June 1991, lot 74, ex Aurelia Collection, Owl, Ltd. & Thomas McKenna, November 1980, lot 72.
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    AR Denarius OBVERSE: Head of "Minerva or Pallas" (personification of Rome) with winged helmet, earrings and necklace, looking to the right.
    Below the chin, it is the "X" (although its value then was 16 aces) and behind the bust is a small jar
    REVERSE: FOSTuLVS left and Sextus. Pompeius. to the right of the field. She-wolf suckling the twins Romulus and Remus.
    Behind Ruminal fig tree is represented with three birds in their branches. On the left, the pastor Faustulus figure in an attitude of admiration for the wonder he sees. ROMA in ex
    Struck at Rome 137 BC
    3.63g, 19.5mm
    Cr235/1a; Syd 461; Pompeia 1
  20. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight I AM the Senate! Supporter

    Rome under Theodoric, Ostrogothic Kingdom
    AE follis
    Obv: IMVIC-TA ROMA, Roma helmeted, facing right
    Rev: She-wolf standing left, suckling Romulus and Remus, XL (40) above, dot V dot in ex
    Mint: Rome
    Date: 496-528 AD
    Ref: BMC 24

  21. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    Thanks for pointing that out Victor, as I'd searched for "vrbs roma twins", I completely missed all of the VIII isues as the authors don't use the term "twins" in their reverse description.

    Regarding your edit, you are saying there is likely no physical difference between the two as both were issued after the reform of 336?

    As this seems to be the case, I am left wondering how the RIC authors decided VII 415 and VIII 08 were indeed seperate issues and how they arrived at their Secunda --> Primera chronology. Arbritrary is one thing, but that seems awfully backward!
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