Gordian III and Septimius Severus - on the same coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by John Conduitt, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    I have a bit of a conundrum. What is this coin? It was described in the auction (Spink, not eBay) as a 'contemporary forgery or limes denarius of Gordian III.' Which doesn't really narrow it down.

    As far as I can work out, one side is based on an antoninianus (not a denarius) of Gordian III: radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right, with legend IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG. This fits various antoniniani of Gordian III from 238-240. His denarii have the legend IMP C M instead of IMP CAES M.

    The other side, however, features the portrait of another emperor, which seems to be Septimius Severus: laureate right, with legend (L SEPT) SEV PER-T AVG IMP V. This fits various denarii of Septimius Severus from 195AD.

    Gordian III and Septimius Severus Denarius
    upload_2021-8-24_15-0-50.png
    Plated copper. 17mm, 1.52g.
    Gordian III, IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG. cf. Gordian III RIC IV 1-6, 14-20, 27-39, 48-50, 50A-C
    .
    Septimius Severus, (L SEPT) SEV PER-T AVG IMP V. cf. RIC VI 57-63 or 465 (although none have PER-T split as apparently on this coin).

    So...is it a limes or a forgery? Is it 'contemporary' (made in the 240s)? Why does it feature an emperor on both sides? Why would those emperors be 27 years apart?

    The coin came from a Victorian pawnbroker's collection (so it has to be at least 100 years old) with an envelope claiming it was 'found in Walmgate, York'. That area has produced Roman coffins, jewellery and coins featuring Septimius Severus. There was a lot of construction in Walmgate in the Victorian era, so perhaps a labourer found the coin while digging and pawned it to supplement his wages.

    Any thoughts would be welcome!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
    ominus1 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    It's a modern fantasy :p.
     
  4. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Very anachronistic. I agree it's probably not authentic.
     
    Ryro and John Conduitt like this.
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    I too worry about Spink listing this unless they have some provenance they accept as it being of period. Sure looks like a ton of bad fakes and fantasy pieces in my black cabinet I have amassed over the years. Bring this piece to me randomly and I quickly tell you its a bad fake/fantasy cast piece.
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  6. Aleph

    Aleph Well-Known Member

    Contemporary imitations can combine dies that would never be paired officially. That on its own does not rule out being an ancient counterfeit.
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  7. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    It would be rather inexcusable for even the most idiotic counterfeiter to place two heads on a coin, and not only that, two denominations on one.
    This could wouldn't fool anybody.
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Both sides have a cast coin look to them. I don't think that it is genuine.
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  9. shanxi

    shanxi Well-Known Member

    BTW: Why is the Gordian Antoninian much smaller than the Septimius Denar? It should be the other way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  10. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Right! The total diam is 17mm, and there is some excess on the flan on the Gordian side. This means that the die diameter of the Gordian is maybe 15-16mm, which is smaller than the smallest Gordian ant I've ever seen, and smaller than any denarius I've seen either.
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..haha....hey. ifn you like one emperor....'flip' ..how 'bout now?!...:D
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  12. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Modern creation unfortunately.

    barry Murphy
     
    Ryro and ominus1 like this.
  13. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..when the E F Hutton of coins remarks...it makes all debate academic ..thanks Barry! :)
     
  14. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Julia D Geta Fake (1).JPG

    Sort of reminds me of the Julia Domna/Geta AE I found at my local dealer's. Nope. :shifty:
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page