Good or Bad Coin dealers

is the poll working? i tried to vote but it says its a fatal error, whatever that means.:computer:

 

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never mind, its working now.

 

I voted in the 81-100%, but I must add that is only for my experience with exonumia dealers. On a number of occasions I have ordered tokens from a website or mail list, and the seller told me to pay after I received the items. I certainly was expecting to pay first in those instances. One seller in particular is rather conservative in his grading, and he grades most of his merchandise lower than I do as a buyer. Exonumia dealers seem to be very knowledgable regarding their material as well. Adjectives such as fair, honest, knowledgable, and trusting could be applied to all of the regular exonumia dealers that I have dealt with - not one complaint about any of them.

 

I have to agree with cwtokenman! The most courteous, professional and honest dealer I ever came across was Paul Cunningham--an exonumia dealer--at the 2005 F.U.N Show. :thumb:

But to be fair to coin dealers they also have a tougher environment to work in with that grading monstrosity. :rolling:

 

I have to say never been ripped by a dealer have though suffred rudness from some, asked one dealer the price on some half sove's at a fair and was told 'Why dont you read the bloody sign' My response' I forgot my bloody glasses' and went to spend my cash elsewhere LOL also I get the dealers leaving me waiting as I dress in Ice Hockey tops have long hair and dont wear a suit or tweed (Yep dealers in London can be stupid) For the most part I have found some good sellers on Ebay, I allways take the discriptions with a pinch of salt LOL and decide if I want it or not

De Orc

 

Andrew: A bit harsh but I have to agree to a point. I go to coin shows about 3 times a month, every month all year for the last 20 to 30 years. I've gone to coin stores, stores with coin dealers in them, hobby stores, flea markets and anyplace else that sells coins. I've been a coin collector for possibly well over 60 years now. Only once have I found a dealer that I considered truely honest, trustworthy and realiable.
However, on the defense of coin dealers everyone should remember that just like a used car salesman, coin dealers have to make a living. If that is their only profession, then they have to make enough to support themselves and possibly a family. Therefore, every cent they make as a profit is important. If they tend to underpay and overcharge, just remember that if you are a coin dealer, you too would do the same in order to make a living.

 

I frequently read/hear the excuse for coin dealers that they do what they do 'because they have to make a living.' Is this a valid excuse for dishonesty? Like any other business, a coin shop has to operate at a markup that permits them to earn a living, but I just don't see this as justification for cheating customers. On the other hand, if there is no way for a dealer to operate honestly and make a living because the economics of the industry just don't allow it, or they aren't good enough businessmen to figure out how to do it, then it might be time for them to find honest work and go back to collecting as a hobby. Society doesn't excuse bartenders who water the booze, auto repair shops that use dirty oil in an oil change, gas stations that sell regular gas labeled as premium, or food companies that put 10 ounces of product in a container labeled 'one pound.' This really isn't any different. They're all bandits.

 

One of the marvels of today's 11 point Unc grading is that it blurs the line between dishonesty and honest disagreement. If a dealer dips an AU and palms it off on rube as an MS63 he's dishonest. Is a dealer that wants more money for an MS64 because he thinks it's really a MS65 dishonest? Or a collector that wants to pay less for the MS64 because he thinks it's really a MS63? In both cases it's only one point but may represent hundreds or thousands of dollars, there's bound to bad feelings on both sides. Both buyer and seller are part of the observations, so how can either truly be "objective?" They are both under the influence of being part of that which is being observed. This was the dilemma that "disinterested" third party grading was suppose to solve.

 

I think the "negotiation" over whether a coin is a 63 or 64, or if it is a 64 or 65 is just normal give and take between informed buyers and sellers. But dipping the AU or telling a seller that his coin is worth bullion value when it is worth many multiples of bullion value bothers me from an ethical standpoint. Even if the dollar amounts involved are the same, I draw a line between haggling and flat out cheating.

 

Wow, never would have believed the results would be turning out this way. I figured there would be a spike at either end with maybe 2/3 in the unfavorable (20% and below) area and the other 1/3 very pleased with the honesty/integrity of the dealer. Some strong feelings posted when it comes to this subject.

Personally I adhere to the adage, you should know as much as possible about the coin before buying. Like they say, buy the book before the coin, know the answer to the question before you ask it. It'll tell you alot about the integrity of the seller.

I guess the worst experience I've recently had was when a dealer apparently rubbed brown wax into a damaged area of a bust dime, and then said he didn't have a loupe for me to take a close look at the coin. I lucked out after buying it as it was a rare (R-6) variety

Thanks for your views.
Regards
Ben

 

Ben:
Yes, you got lucky with the variety, but: would you ever do business with him again?

 

Oh, "Heck No" not even for 2x2 flips. :/ All he had to do was get off his rear and hand me a loupe. I still paid the marked price for the coin. Here it is, the wax was rubbed into the gouges. The lighting was poor near this case and I also noticed there were some obviously bent 1/2 dimes and other coins w/problems shown with it.


See the large cud over UNI on the reverse?

Ben

 

Things to remember about coin dealers and buying from them:

1. Anyone can be a coin dealer.
2. Coin dealers don't have to be experts on coins to sell them.
3. Dealers must make a profit to be successful.
4. There is a sucker born every minute, and "dishonest" dealers know this.
5. Let the buyer beware, you are ultimitly responsible for your action.
6. Most all coins for sale to the general public will always be available for a price. BE PATIENT!
7. Educate yourself and you will be armed to "not" be taken by dishonesty.

 

-No problems for me about 90% of the time. Only know of one brick-and-mortar dealers who has a habit of overgrading 1-2 grades on a regular basis (but undergrade by the same when buying!)

Some rude dealers, but the only ones who have ripped me off were vest pocket dealers:

-Vest pocket dealer at a show overcharged. Instead of stating that I was shortchanged a few dollars, I simply asked some others I knew, who confirmed that that particular person has a habit of squeezing
-three cases of buying an item on ebay that sold cheaply, and "dissappeared" in the mail
-one case of an ebay purchase where the seller intentionally included modern counterfeits in a lot without stating so in the description (admitted in emails later on.)

I've also had two trades (collector/collector) where the other party did not send anything in return.

I have encountered pawn shops and antique shops with way overpriced coins, but excluded those from my number above as I don't consider them to be coin dealers.

As for pricing, I consider it fair for a dealer to charge more than catalogue or the usual value for ancient and medieval coinage, as some of it is hard to come across, and attribution can often be time-consuming (or virtually impossible if you don't have hundreds of dollars worth of the right catalgoues). On ocassion I happily pay over "fair value" for ancient and medieval pieces. In some cases, the catalgoue values are too low, and it's the only way to obtain the material.

 

I think this just about covers that subject. However, there is always room for more.
8. Like a used car salesperson, believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.
9. If you buy from a dealer you've never seen before, you'll probably never see them again.
10. Be carefull of people that tell you a certain dealer is honest if you don't know them. And if it's a relative,
don't believe them at all.

 

I have met more bad them good dealers.

 

My experience with dealers has been pretty good so far.There are 7-8 within easy driving distance and I regularly buy from 4 of them.The problem as I see it is that there are a lot of dealers that have been in the business so long that they have become a bit jaded and this sometimes leads to ornery and cantakerous attitudes,especially towards newcomers and youngsters.Some of these can be softened up with a bit of friendly chat and a few compliments about their establishment but for others there doesn't seem to be any way to get through.It's a shame because you just know that at one time,they were as enthusiastic about coins and collecting as I am.If they only knew that they might have lost their potential best customer.

 

I would just like to add here that my experience with coin dealers has been bad enough to alter my collecting habits. There are many things that I won't buy now if I believe my sons will not be able to liquidate it someday for a price fairly close to fair value if they choose not to hold onto it.

The great advice I've received from Coin Talk has also kept me from making more than a few buying mistakes, and I thank everyone for that too.

Happy New Year!

 

I've had some incredibly great dealings with many dealers, and I've had some not so memorable transactions. To qualify as a better dealer, they must have most of the qualifying traits:
1. Honesty: I'd rather hear "I don't know, but this is where you could go" then to hear an exagerated truth
2. Willingness to talk and hear other viewpoints. I do understand its a business, but a lot of dealers forget the "human" aspect of collecting.
3. Good with kids...now this one is a rather new one for me since I have several, but I've always noticed the better dealers will be very nice to the kids who have an interest. Not only is this good for the parents, but its grows the young ones with knowledge and eagerness to collect
4. Making of deals...I'm not referring to getting 30% off of MS65s, but the cutting of prices of culls, especially for the younger ones (cheap junk). I like to use the culls and cheap stuff to give out for Halloween and other events...normally, they won't sell, but it does bring interest.
5. The selling of reference materials. This isn't a deal breaker, but dealers with a sizable reference area tend to be better in my eyes. Especially if the reference material is for sale.