Gold Sogdian imitative

I was able to pick this up yesterday. Its a barbaric copy of a byzantine gold piece. Its ex-Dmitry Markov, a world leader in Sogdian coinage and apparently unpublished.

Sogdia to my knowledge never struck any gold coinage. The closest they ever got was imitative issues like this one and the thin, very rare one sided pieces. I posted one of them a couple of years ago here, and it was not everyone's cup of tea. That is fine, and I am sure this is not some's either, but it about all there is out there for gold coins from this very little understood region. I know I am biased, but I think owning a gold coin struck on the ancient Silk Road, coupled with the fact one of the world leaders in this coinage declares it unpublished, is pretty cool.



Byzantine Imitative. Central Asian imitation of an Heraclius solidus. 610-641 or later. AV solidus (19.4 mm, 1.85 g, 1 h). Busts of Heraclius and Heraclius Constantine / VHNVW LVVIIIV (barbarous legend), Cross on steps. Unpublished, apparently unique. VF.

 

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Any coin struck on the Silk Road is a winner in my book!

 

Ah, I see now! I didn't think the Sogdians struck any gold, and I've only ever seen these referred to as "Silk Road area." There's an article on at least the bracteates in Coins, Art, and Chronology, which I think you have a copy of.

 

Yes, thanks, bracteates is what I was trying to think of earlier. I have one bracteate, which themselves are pretty rare. I think I have seen 3 for sale in the last decade that I have noticed.

The problem with imitative gold coins is proving where they were minted. If this coin didn't have the Markov pedigree, it would have been harder to associate this with Central Asia, as opposed to somewhere else.

Btw, yes, maybe I stretch it a little with "Sogdian". By the time this coin was minted, the Sogdians were still the predominant people's in the region, but Turks and Hepthalites mainly controlled their city leadership. So the government power was no longer Sogdian, but the people remained the same. I choose to do this intentionally with Sogdia, since there were Seleucids, Bactians, Yeuh Chi, Kidarites, Hepthalites, Turks, Chinese, and muslim rulers interspersed throughout the period when they struck pre-Islamic coinage. Therefor, it simply gets to be to arbitrary to try to assign who might have been in charge if not Sogdians at the time. Therefor, I just assign the coins to the people or region separate from political control.

Its a very messy political mess to deal with, coupled with the fact in many, (most), cases we simply do not have any hard facts to work on.

 

That's a cool addition & congrats on being the new owner.

* Watches Chris throw it into the hoard stacks to be forgotten...*

 

Lol. Why it may get put away in a box, like the gold bracteates I own it will not be forgotten. Its simply too rare and its kind of a prized holding amongst all of the bronzes and silvers in my Sogdian boxes.

 

Thats a good gold coin, I don't have any or understand the imitation coins so its an interesting read for me.

 

That's so very interesting and way COOL!!! And it's a solidus to boot!!

 

Interesting coin of an enticing place and period. Did Markov give a reference or a place where the coin was found? Often, with imitations the problem is that it's unknown where they have been coined.

 

I saw that - awesome coin!

 

He didn't, but he specializes in coins found in the former Soviet Union. Plus, there are other types of imitative Byzantine coins attributed to the same area. So this is not unique in that they have never seen a imitation gold Byzantine from the area, but this type has never been published before. I have seen two Justinian imitations with similar weights also attributed to the region.

 

Thanks. I was curious if you can find reference about this type of coins. I only knew a few bracteates, imitations from earlier solidi. Could you mention the author and title of the article you mentioned?

 

what is the actual physical evidence that places this coin so far east ? we are placing this near samarkand, the central asian silk road area? I dont see it, of course Im a newbie to silk road issues, it may be more ignorance than scholarship on my part, but do you or does anybody know what the markers are on the coin that Dimitry used to reach his conclusion?

 

I imagine findspot and similar imitative gold coins found in the area. Here is some I found on Zeno.ru.

http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=121152
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=51608
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=89358
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=111343

Maybe they ALL are bracteates, and some bracteates are simply thinner, and others fatter, than others.

 

Cool coin. There is something attractive about a unpublished coin.
Sounds like one you should send to NGC or PCGS.
My unpublished coin is tiny:


The dolphin is swimming the wrong way => it is unpublished. HNI has one swimming the other way, but has limited info on this series.

Italy. Northern Apulia, Salapia; 275-250 BC.
Obv. Dolphin left;above [...]ΑΠΙΝΩΝ.
Rev. Dolphin right.
HN Italy -. Cf. 689. SNG ANS -. Garrucci -.
AE, 3.40 grams, 14.50 mm, RRR. Good VF. Apparently unpublished. Nice light-green patina.

 

so those are interesting, seems i can generally place the origin geographically by the style/design/quality... my guesses

121152... yes over by the Kashgar area. kind of early saka maybe when they were still migrating south?
51608 ... reverse looks very bactrian/greek influence
89358 .... hunnic looking piece
111343.... has a scythian look right?

this new one from dmitry, I dont really see any other style but a crude byzantine style... would north black sea area be considered silk road? I think there were 2 main western branches, right, one north to russsia, the other to persia and west...

 

Are these coins actually gold? Of what purity? The weight seems pretty light for a solidus.

 

The Silk Road history was mainly a story between the north and south routes. The south route being the predominant one until the destruction by the Kushans. After that it moved North into Sogdiana. The western branch of the northern route was always predominantly through Persia, due to the vast majority of the product being traded with the Roman empire, predominantly through Constantinople.

As to the origins of the four above to certain people, I don't see it. What I see is mainly attempts to imitate prototypes with barbaric nonsense legends, like my piece. I have been collecting Central Asia for about 15 years now, and I couldn't make the association you are based upon the style of these pieces. The only one I am guessing is the "hunnic" one, based upon I guess the bad reverse like Napki Malka or Alchon pieces. However some Kushan and Kidarites have the same types of reverses. As to Bactrian influences, remember these had to have been made at least 600 years after the last Bactrian king.

 

true re 51608 the bactrian dating observation, it does look like many greek style reverses was my point on that one... the central asian scythians had a few coins that look very classically greek as well, so there must have been a few cities wherein the greek arts maintained some influence..

and the one I called Hunnic 89358 yea theres a definate Kidarite aspect to that one, the 3/4 facing profile is an unusual style they both used ....

 

Actually the 3/4 facing was the original Byzantine gold coin they were imitating. This was common on late roman gold and early byzantine.

I guess point is, all of them look to me similar in that they were imitations of contemporary Byzantine gold in every way, just crude engraving and nonsensical legends. If these are accepted by the hobby as Central Asian, mine does not look far from the style. couple that with Mr. Markov's attribution as being Central Asian, and I am comfortable with the designation. Had it not been ex-Markov, I would need more research to raise my comfort more.

If anyone has a similar coin attributed to somewhere else, I would love to see it.