Gold confiscations and current gold

True, but the court case would take years...imagine an inflation rate of 20% and 5 years to get to the court. Even if the court decided that the 'fair value' was the price of bullion at the time of the theft, the government would most assuredly pay in inflated dollars worth, after 5 years half what they had been.

 

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They only gave face value in the 1930's because that WAS the value of the gold. That does not mean they would only give face value today. And even if you bought foreign gold that would still take that as well.

Of course due process can simply mean that they pass a law and then enforce it. If they pass a law that says the official government price of gold is $100 and then later confiscate gold at the "official" price that's due process.

As for "just compensation", who decides what is just? If the government says turn in ALL gold for spot price is that just compensation? Including for your $3 gold pieces etc? (Many people have the mistaken idea that since the government exempted the pre 1933 gold coins back in the 30's they would be safe from any future confiscations. In reality if a future act confiscated gold and didn't specificly exempt collector gold then it too would be subject to confiscation.)

No it doesn't. Back before the US Eagles began the Mint had a Gold Arts Medallion series of 1/2 oz and 1 oz medallions that were sold for a small mark up over the bullion value. They were clearly marked with their weight and fineness, but sales were miserable because coin collectors had no interest in them. They simply were not coins. In 1986 when they made the eagles and gave the 1 oz gold a $50 face value, demand shot through the roof. It's amazing what that "bogus face value" can do.

 

A couple of years ago I was looking into the $5 canadian maple leaf bullion coins. I sent an email to Scotiabank and asked whether the coin was $5 legal tender in Canada. The response I received was that it was not, but that some people and banks might honor it voluntarily anyway even if silver slipped below $5. They said the reason why there was a face value is that it enables the coins to escape certain taxes when they are exported from Canada to other parts of the world.

My understanding is that US bullion coins are different and that Congress legislated that the coins carry a face value and be declared legal tender.

 

Perhaps its time for the government to update that value...why not a new coin for 2009 with a $500 face value?

 

Due process means that you are charged with a crime and are given your proper rights (such as a trial, lawyer, jury, etc.) If you are tried and convicted of possessing marijuana through due process, the government is allowed to confiscate your marijuana. The second part of the 5th Amendment that I quoted allows the government to take private property without due process, but this property must be used for public use and the owner must be given just compensation.

 

So far, every coin that the federal government (the Mint) has ever minted was legal tender at the time, and with the exception of Trade Dollars, still are (Trade Dollars are the only coin the US has minted that had their legal tender status revoked; if you want to take 100 half cents into a store to buy a can of soda you still can, technically lol... though if you want to do that I'd be glad to get the soda for you myself and only ask 50 of them...). The face value does mean something, though in the case of bullion coins it really only means something if the bullion value ever drops below the face value. It is mostly just symbolic in a sense, but it does generate collector interest beyond what the interest in something that is just bullion would.

As for the topic at hand "numismatic value" would save most of the people here who own any gold even in the unlikely event the government decides to declare gold illegal to own again (jewelery is another allowed exception btw, so don't worry about them coming after your wedding ring). However since we've been off the gold standard since 1974 it would be highly unlikely they ever would again. It would take another depression basically... which with a more stable global economy and the stabilising effect of the Federal Reserve would be a lot less likely to happen than it was in 1929-1939. (Yes the Federal Reserve was around then, but it was harder to have a stabilising effect with the overall economy.) When we were on the gold standard, hoarding of gold had a more destabilising effect on the US dollar than it would now, as a purely fiat currency.

5th Ammendment also guarantees if they do confiscate any gold you own, they have to pay fair compensation, which would likely be interepreted as whatever it was worth at the time it was confiscated. They'd have a hard time making the claim that face value is anywhere near fair compensation (besides which, any gold coin you could legitimately call a "numismatic item.")

In short, I wouldn't be too worried. If you have any gold bars you may want to sell them or trade them for gold coins if you're worried about this passing again lol... but even that wouldn't be very likely anyway.

 

Yep.

Is anybody really concerned they will break down your door and take your $3 Princess for melt value ? I'm certainly not.

I'm more concerned I'll be run over by a stampeding herd of turtles in Time Square at high noon.

Seems like there was an old song that went "paranoia will destroy ya...."