Go home kid.

How bizarre, I have just bought this coin........without seeing this thread or any pics of the coin you posted.....

 

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I don't know the series very well, Pete, but I think yours is a later issue, as the devices became stylized into line drawings. It's a very nice example!

 

Whoa... they were selling an Edward I groat for $39,500... yes, most of that site falls way out of my social class... but they do have some amazing things for less than $500...

 

Gaaaaaaah!!!! People, buyers premium is way different than a tax!

Get it right...

 

Yes the YOC coin is a Tye 14 and just a bit later. These things were issued for 5 centuries and the last ones are much smaller (but thicker so they weigh about the same) and more base (a lot more base). Tye 14 is one of the most common numbers but not the cheapest since it is still good looking silver. All I know is on my page:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/bh.html

 

Whats sad is the person buying from CNG or something and having to turn around and sell it, say ebay, or consignment to a VC dealer, chances are you wont even get half of what you paid in the first place, especially after fees and whatnot.

Part of the appeal of buying in the slums, I have a couple of former CNG coins, many Harlen J Berk, several Heritage, and some Stacks that didnt cost nearly as much as their tags or former big auction wins cost when won +fees.

My gordian III that I havent shared was bought at $80 in 1996 and I only paid $20 for it from a dealer. I know this cause it came with the handwritten tag.

 

If a coin leaps out at me, I buy. at only $19....I just had to.

 

I think the missus is sensing that something is awry? (I may have to fake a heart attack?)

 

I'm no stranger to the slums, but coins of Malichus I are very scarce and you've got to buy them from whoever has them. CNG is not the place I would go for casual collecting - more for specialized acquisitions. Also, in the case of certain widely-counterfeited coins, I would feel safer buying from CNG.

 

Very interesting reading Doug. Thank you.

 

I would use use CNG more, but for the past few months they have had practically nothing within my field of interest. For example, the current auction has only one, ONE, issue of Alexandria.

Oh, and it doesn't help that I'm on the wagon.

Stubid wagon (intentional misspelling).

 

LOVE IT!!! Science nerd humor.

 

There seems to be an ever increasing gap between my budget and the price of coins that I want.

 

Alexandria is really a two part collecting interest. The big money collectors don't care about the later, thick billon tetradrachms or even the common types of the earlier tetradrachms but there is great interest in the drachms of Antoninus Pius which are really big money when in good condition and not one of the really common ones. This is mostly because the AP drachm types are really very interesting compared to the tetradrachms of any period. How often do you see any dealer offering Zodiacs nicer than Steve's? It seems that Alexandrian coins exist in low grade even more than most coins. They must have circulated more than any coins to get as worn as many we see. The AP specials (including the Zodiac coins) bring money even when worn. The boring types seem to bring little even when nice. To me, Alexandria makes a good specialty but I can't imagine any one sale venue handling a large collection across the whole series. Big auctions will want the Zodiacs which small dealers couldn't afford but would not want a thousand, all different chunky late 4drs. This won't be a problem for vlaha since by the time his estate goes to market, sort-of old coins will be really old.

 

Sorry to hear you missed out on another nifty Nabataean, JA. I ended up second/third/etc place in a number of auction lots in the last 2 days, including one I very dearly wanted. Some other people just wanted them more and/or had deeper pockets. As was said in the Gallic Empire... c'est la vie. For now, I'll work on building up my patience... seems to be a useful trait if I'm going to be in this hobby for the long haul.

 

I know what you mean about Antoninus Pius, some of his types are to die for. However, I don't see why they don't have at least handful during each sale.

 

Actually, you need to bid 16 2/3% less. E.g., if your budget is $100, you can bid up to $83.33 since 20% of $83.33 = $16.67 so your total is $100.

It's absolutely true that auctions can be quirky and volatile. There can be bargains out there -- a Roman AR quadrigatus that sold at a 2013 Goldberg auction for less than $4,000 was just recently sold at retail by CNG for $9,500. But it's also easy to get caught up in a bidding war and overbid for a coin that isn't all that unique.

In general, though, auctions remain the only avenue by which one can acquire very scarce or rare coins, such as a Julius Caesar aureus or a Colosseum sestertius. No dealer is going to buy one of these for his/her private catalog and hold onto it until the right buyer comes along. If a dealer isn't buying one of these coins specifically as an agent for a collector, then the dealer likely has a specific client in mind that he knows for certain will purchase the coin from him.

Personally, I have no issues with buyer's premiums per se, although I do think some of them are getting usuriously high (e.g., 21.5%). At some point a high buyer's premium will have a negative impact on the hammer price for a coin, and sellers will suffer. In theory, this is a self-correcting process.

 

What do you mean by some point? I always calculate both the BP and the, (very common), sky high postage costs when figuring out how much to bid. To not do so it to set yourself for a very rude shock. That $80 "bargain" just became a $122 "surprise".

 

Let's say that a seller of, say, a Colosseum sestertius thinks his coin should fetch $150,000 at an auction. If a potential buyer has a total budget of $175,000, then he can only afford a 16.67% buyer's premium in order to bid $150,000. He'll drop out of the bidding once it gets over that price.

But if the auction house is asking an 18% buyer's premium, the bidder will drop out at a lower price -- $148,000 or so. So if there are a number of potential buyers in the $175K-maximum-budget-range, all of them will drop out before the coin reaches the seller's desired $150K selling price.

Thus, the higher the auction house's premium, the fewer buyers there may be at the seller's desired price. There will be an inflection point at which sellers no longer work with a certain auction house since the buyer's premium is so high it reduces the potential number of bidders and decreases the chance of obtaining the seller's desired price. This is what I mean by self-correcting.

 

I agree fully with Ides' assessment of the situation but point out that the way this works in the super high prices may be different than for the lower end coins people like me buy. I get several emails a week from sellers who would never waste sending me a catalog. Some of them I examine to see if there is something I want; some I just delete because I know that I won't be willing to pay their price including overpriced shipping and over-steep premiums for the sort of coins they use to pad out their sales. When a coin is ordinary and I will be able to find another easily, there is no reason to pay $20 shipping and $15 add-ons for a $60 coin. If I were looking for a nice Colosseum or Eids, I might just say this is part of the cost of doing business but when most of your coins are not specific wants that have been gnawing at you for years, it is easy just to say a certain sale is for bigger dogs and only to be examined if I'm bored.

I really enjoy playing a game when watching online auctions like Pecunem close. A lot comes up and has 15 seconds to receive bids before it goes unsold or sells to the highest (not last second) bidder. The game is to see whether I can guess whether anyone will jump in at the last second or if the price shown will take it. This is not a good time to decide to bid on one of these coins but it is fun to see if anyone is watching the lot. I find I'm right on this more often than I expected. Of course the frustrating part is when I can't figure out why the coin has already been bid up to that point. I'd prefer I could look at a lot going for 5x estimate and be able to see what made it so desirable.