Glued fake "patina" raises price from $1,500 to $5,900

Asking price isn't sales price but I agree that the coin should be worth less now than before.

 

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Diocletian
Ӕ Quinarius.
Rome,
CE 284-305.
IMP DIOCLETIANVS AVG, laureate and draped bust right /
IOVI CONSERVAT AVGG, Jupiter standing left, holding thunderbolt and sceptre. 1.46g, 16mm, 12h.
RIC V 193. R

 

I think some of you might find it interesting to read the views of one dealer on acceptable vs. unacceptable practices with respect to painting/repatination, smoothing and tooling, etc., using Judaean coins as an example. It's on the defunct website of Fontanille Coins -- a once well-known and reputable dealer, apparently -- so the link is through the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20190915164751/http://www.fontanillecoins.com/tooling.htm.

In general, he views cleaning and what he calls "repatination" as acceptable, and tooling and painting as unacceptable. Here is one of his statements:

"Repatination is an improper word that does not consist in removing the original patina in order to replace it by a new and thus fake one. It simply consists, after a coin has been cleaned, in adding a layer of bright substance in the background in order to enhance the patterns. The silver coins do not need repatination because they are naturally bright, but the bronze coins, when cleaned, are generally covered by a dark patina and they need repatination."

It would seem that as long as the repatination is removable, it's OK in his view. So he would probably endorse adding "desert patina" like Athena does. He also seems to think some smoothing is OK -- but not tooling.

Here are links to two threads on the FORVM discussion boards commenting on Fontanille's views, one from 2013 and one from 2015:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=91927.msg573789#msg573789

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=101965.msg628053#msg628053

As far as I'm concerned, if what somebody does to a coin beyond cleaning is removable and disclosed, it becomes a matter of taste as to whether it increases or decreases the value, and whether it's acceptable or unacceptable. Personally, it's not to my taste. I don't like the way applied desert patina looks -- perhaps because it's so strongly associated in my mind with "fakeness." So I wouldn't buy a desert patina coin from Athena, disclosed or otherwise.

 

I like how "desert" patina looks, and thus I have a few. However, if I knew that it is applied patina, I would not even consider a coin even if it is disclosed.

Examples of two coins from my collection that may or may not be fake patinas:

CONSTANTINE I
AE4
OBVERSE: DV CONSTANTINVS P T AVGG, veiled head right
REVERSE: VN-MR to either side of Constantine, standing right, togate & veiled, SMANS in ex.
Struck at Antioch, 337-355 AD
2.1g, 15mm
RIC VIII 112

MAXIMINUS II DAIA
Quarter-Nummus
OBVERSE: IOVI CONSERVATORI, Jupiter seated left holding globe & sceptre
REVERSE: VICTORIA AVGG, Victory advancing left with wreath & palm, officina letter to right, ANT in ex.
Struck at Antioch, 310-313 AD
1.2g, 15mm
Vagi 2955

 

medoraman, posted: "Sandy patina" is not patina at all, and simply forces me to pay more attention to the real grade underneath."

Amen to this! Dirt, and sand are surface debris. They have nothing to do with the actual surface - REAL PATINA.

"Sandy Patina" is just another way to describe a DIRTY ancient coin's surface - Just like "smoothing" is used to describe an altered design or surface. In most cases it is done to make a coin more attractive.

The best way to detect surface alterations (except for actual lessons from a top-notch coin doctor) is personal experimentation. That's why I want some red sand.

 

GREEN DESERT PATINA OF CAMPANIA


Campania CAPUA AE 14-5mm 216-211 Hera Oscan Grain ear Hannibal capital Italia SNG Fr 517 SNG ANS 219 HN Italy 500 EE Clain Stefanelli



Campania CAPUA AE Uncia 216-211 BCE Diana Boar Hannibal capital Italia SCARCE



Campania CAPUA AE Semuncia 216-211 BCE Juno Xoanon Hannibal capital Italia SCARCE

 

As to the technique (Shoud be easy with a translator)

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=62355&start=15#p525707

 

Why is the word "Desert" added to the actual the green corrosion product on these coins - their patina, that makes ancient coins desirable to so many of us? Is it just an indication of location such as a coin described with "green desert patina from Red Desert Wyoming when there is no coating of sand?

 

LOL

 

One seller on Vcoins has a series of Ostrogothic bronze coins all with orange sand patina. These coins never circulated in regions where they could acquire such a patina naturally. I consider all of these coins destroyed, unless the fake sand patina is removable.

 

Want to see some "sand" on coins? Wait until you all see the image I post this coming week.

What would you use to fraudulently hide the surface of an ancient. Hint: It's NOT SAND. Fortunately. I won't be giving lessons on how to do it.

 

Women's make-up is one of the other methods.

 

I knew that if I could figure out how to do in seconds, others could. Woman's makeup sounds like the best/easiest. I'm going to try it.

 

Here's another VCoins seller whose LRBs all have the exact same patina. Perhaps there is a huge hoard of coins buried behind the store that s/he just keeps digging up whenever the stock runs low:
Numismatica Prados