Hi guys, Just wanted to share with you a post from a blog I ready daily by a Maine dealer, who is well known in the Liberty Seated arena, but who has branched out in the past year. Today's blog post includes some thoughts on CAC after a large submission, some of you may find interesting. Some of you won't, I know. http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/DailyBlog.htm (sometimes this loads slowly) or on Facebook: CLICK HERE (when page opens, click "see more") If you dont know who Gerry Fortin is, here is his main page with lots of good info for coin freaks like us: http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/
I don't want to work for them, just collect their green little gems. Seriously, GF blog is rarely about CAC, it's more little snippets of thoughts on coins, and taken collectively, offer some nice insights into the hobby from a dealer. One of the few coin blogs that is updated daily. Lots to learn on his site, regardless of your opinion on CAC. Just wanted to share in case some of you were not familiar with his work. -Matt
Chide not the young gent Matt. It was merely an observation on his part.......and quite correct. I associate many things with music and videos and useless nonsense. My cross to bear.......LOL!
@josh's coins , since you are asking about becoming a subject matter expert in a few coin series, Gerry Fortin is a great example of a dealer who specialized. He even has varieties named after him! You would greatly benefit from his little doses of daily coin musings. It's free!!! Read through his back posts, stop trying to be clever with your posts here, and start learning!
Another scenario, where you and I can discuss what is actually written and what it means. Here are the key points I quickly noticed and grasped from the very useful blog you presented. They are written by a serious collector... Here, he makes a reference to a collection worthy of a curator... I am only a curator of this collection... Here, he clearly states the intention to sell and processing prior to sale... Eventually everyone reaches a point in their numismatic career when selling some priced acquisitions is a prudent step. This realization came about as I continue to process my seated dime reference collection through the TPGs and CAC review. Here, he brings up serious collectors and high quality coins... It is time to start slowly selling some pieces and allowing other serious collectors to share the same enjoyment in acquiring high quality coins. Here, he mentions a coin important enough to be in the bank vault... So this PCGS MS62 example sat quietly in the bank vault until being sent to CAC last week where it stickered. The very text you presented refers to "premium coins"... In today's blog, I wish to discuss why I am such a strong supporter of CAC review. In my mind, the primary benefit is that of education and using a review by one of the best graders in the numismatic industry to understand the attributes of premium coins. And the cherry on top, which you seem to be missing in our discussions, well, here it is from your daily mentor... Some dealers have a business model of acquiring raw coins and processing through the TPGs and asking significant premiums for their time and effort; they believe their customer will only purchase coins in TPG holders. My philosophy is to still sell nice raw original coins and not tie up inventory in the grading cycle. The result is reasonable price for a nice original coin that is not slabbed and potential heading into a Dansco album. You may wish to go back and re-read my posts on the CAC sticker and what I think of it. It is very easy to agree with the text you presented here and especially the parts I quoted here. I believe the line you use on your profile page, contradicts almost everything that this man is trying to convey... "I collect CAC Type Coins. I like to submit cheap coins to CAC." May 28, 2014 Remember, try to absorb and understand what you are reading, especially when my posts are concerned. Chances are you and I will agree on more and you won't have to get so excited. Nice solid info from Mr. Gerry Fortin.
@torontokuba, I'm not sure what the over point of your post is. But I have a few comments: (1) I am very happy you seem to like Gerry's blog. I enjoy reading it, and I want others to realize it's a good resource and should be bookmarked. (2) Gerry Fortin is NOT my mentor. He is a well know, state of Maine-based coin dealer. He is widely respected in his specialty, seated dimes. I do communicate with him regularly. I have yet to buy a single coin from him. I wish I had a definable mentor, but for now, it's only CoinTalk and a handful of members who I widely respect. So-called "CoinTalk University" (3) I have no idea why you think my profile tag-line and liking Gerry Fortin's Blog are mutually exclusive. (4) I don't buy Raw collector coins, never have, never will. I just don't have the skill or inclination to do so. I already have too many elephants and not enough ammo. I don't need raw, I don't want raw. Just my personal preference. (5) Gerry sells alot of raw coins, as well as, alot of TPG coins; so do most dealers. What is your point? When I buy a coin from him (most likely within next 6 months) it will be a CAC approved coin. Because he promotes raw, I shouldn't like him or buy from him? This somehow makes me a hypocrite? (6) Gerry keeps all his coins in a bank vault, not only his most valuable coins. Most dealers keep all their inventory in a bank vault. What is your point? (7) I concur with you: You and I likely agree on more than we think we do. But since you and I are unable to communicate in a manner that the other understands, I don't think we'll ever nail down the specifics of what we agree on and disagree on.
My point is, I read his opinion on the use of CAC and I swear, I tried to bring some of the same points to light. As you said, we did not communicate along the same lines, regarding silly plastic and stickers on less significant coins. He does not tie up inventory in the grading cycle (CAC can be included in that cycle). Maybe, you'd be mentioning finances less, if you purchased raw UNC or bargain TPG, without going all out for CAC at a higher price. Afterall, you like to submit cheap coins to CAC. I personally do not see a reason for CAC on cheap common coins or low grade coins. I also got the impression of a similar approach from the man, whose blog you introduced in this topic.
Everyone has a different idea of what "cheap" means. To me, that means < $350 each. Someone here will think that's ridiculously cheap as they don't go less than $1000 on their coins, others can only dream of owning a $350 coin. I do like submitting to CAC, but I had to slow down since it ties up money for a period of months, and I'm not a dealer, just a collector using personal funds. Compared to many collectors here, my whole collection is cheap. I mean, I literally have a $15 coin in my permanent collection, and a whole slew between $25 and $99. That's what I mean by cheap, again, to someone else the word means something very different. Like most hobbies, buying coins is a discretionary purchase. So, when there is no extra money laying around for a coin, I do wish aloud that I had more "play" money. I try and put my personality into my posts, and let people know we can't all just buy every coin we like. Money is the limiting factor in most collections. I want anyone who reads my posts to get that sense. Am I oversharing, perhaps. Over time, a newbie or poor guy (like me), can curate a nice collection on limited funds. Some people might think my collection is a bunch of trash. But somewhere lurking here on CoinTalk is a new collector, with $50 to spend on a coin, and I hope they find my posts and understand a nice collection can be formed on very limited means. My hope is that people here can relate. Now, your point seems to be that if I wanted raw and/or non-CAC coins, my money could go further. Maybe that's true. But I don't think so. I see a lot of people waste money on cleaned, damaged, fake coins. Someone might get burned one too many times, and be burned out before they ever get street smart. More importantly, and this is the part you don't seem to understand, I don't want, raw and non-CAC coins. Who cares if I could have bought 10 raw coins with my limited funds, instead of 5 CAC coins. I don't want ANY of those raw coins. Raw and naked (no sticker) coins are not part of my collecting goals, sorry. Maybe in 10 years, I will be the biggest raw-freak you've ever seen. For now, I'm making a CAC Type Set, it sort of requires CAC approved coins.
The way I'm defining it is this: Complete U.S. Type Set, Circulation Strikes (1652-2014) consisting of CAC approved coins in every case that CAC accepts the Type. Why am I going back to 1652? I want colonials. Am I counting major varieties as a separate Type? YES. How many coin "Types" do I currently list: Around 250. Will I ever be able to afford them all: NO.
Good to know your brand of crazy, that is a very ambitious goal, best of luck. I wasn't entirely sure coins were important in your set, without the mention of a US coins type set with CAC stickers on it. I thought the short CAC set might be 1 rejected coin, 1 green bean and 1 gold bean. The long being every grade from PO1 - MS70 with a CAC bean on it, gold bean varieties included or excluded. Nice to know that in your set, coins are equally as important as the packaging. All these CAC topics on CT, not just ours, remind me of grade school. We had sticker albums. Our teachers, parents, relatives provided stickers and I can't forget when the scratch and sniff ones first appeared, what a cool concept, they were now interactive, anyways, that's enough of my oversharing. Cheers!
Your idea reminds me of another wacky type set. I have romanticized about doing a Problem-Coin Type set, so TPG coins in every problem flavor. I may still do that. I do like your concept of a three coin CAC type set. So it would be the exact same year, MM, TPG, and TPG grade: 1 known CAC reject, 1 green sticker, 1 gold. I like it! I think I would do PCGS MS65 Walking Liberty Halves for this mini-set. Believe it or not, that IS one of my current goals. Meaning, I have a set within a set. I want to get at least one example of every possible grade with a CAC sticker. Currently, I am missing only the following: 1 PO 2 FR 3 AG 8 VG 15 F 20 VF 60 MS 61 MS 68 MS 69 MS It's hard to believe I am missing 8,15,20, but it's true! No I am not joking about any of this. Remember, to have "fun with your coins".
I understand your position on CAC. I am not going to try to change your mind either. I own many holdered coins with CAC stickers and many without. Viewing god only knows how many coin auctions, either trying to win it or just looking at archives, I've come to one conclusion. In GENERAL, not always, coins with CAC stickers bring higher prices. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it, that's the reality of today's marketplace. Now the question becomes, will it stay that way? I have no idea. For me, I'm planning to send in all my coins to CAC that are over a certain dollar amount. I feel like I can accomplish 2 things: get an opinion on grade from one of the most respected Numismatists in the hobby (and learn from those coins that don't sticker) and secondly, add a form of insurance to my coins.
