Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Drusus, post: 513883, member: 6370&quot;]Here is a little more about it...this was reported by Ursula Kampmann, swiss numismatic journalist (former coin dealer). described by the ACCG as “a well known friend of the collector, a respected scholar and a professional numismatist” in an article entitled article is entitled <i>“Die eigentlichen Plünderer sind die Sammler”: Polizeioberkommissar Eckhard Laufer und sein Kampf gegen das Böse </i>In the October issue of Münzen Revue:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&quot;299 blaimless collectors have been accused of fence, because they bought at Ebay from a dealer who is accused to have stolen coins from the ground (accused, not condemned, and I have seen that the police in Usingen is very fast in accusing dealers and collectors). There have been house searches, collections have been taken away by the police.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This is a statement from the author made during a brief exchange with an archeologist well known for his disdain of collectors (coin fondlers)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I think that collecting is the best protection of portable antiquities. As long as there is a market for them, people take care of them. Right now I am translating 150 letters wrote by a Swiss coin collector living around 1600. In that time it was the characteristics of an educated man to collect coins. The world of education was held together by talking about coins changing coins buying and presenting coins. It is the oldest text I know about the practical circumstances on coin collecting. He often complains about the „stupid peasants“ who have melted down a hoard of gold or silver coins. And I remember myself the marvellous stories of Pierre Strauss, coin dealer working at Münzen und Medaillen and known scholar in late antiquity. He often told me how he rescued interesting coins from the melting pots of the gold smiths in the bazaars of Persia, Afghanistan and Egypt.</p><p><br /></p><p>As most coins are made from gold and silver and have an intrinsic value, I do believe that every finder, who urgently needs money (and who does not?), would melt them down, if he could not sell them for more money to a willing market.</p><p>But this is a debate of principles – and I know that neither you have a chance to convince me nor do I have a chance to convince you.</p><p><br /></p><p>But let’s come back to your first point: In Germany it is allowed to deal in ancient coins. There are many, many coins from old collections (as I said coins have been collected since the middle of the 16th century) – and there may be also coins from new finds. There is also a third possibility: that a coin was found in Bavaria – where there is a different legal situation that allows the finder to keep the coins (and sell them, if he wants) as long as he has noted the Staatssammlung in Munich or a comparable institution. I promise you, I have seen a lot of coins found in Bavaria – and I have never seen a certificate.</p><p><br /></p><p>The problem is, that it is nearly impossible to tell to which group a coin belongs. German law is based like many laws in developed democracies are on the principle that the State has to proof the guilt of the accused, not the accused his innocence. And I think there is a good reason for it: It may be difficult to proof that coins are coming from a recent excavation or looting, it is even more difficult to proof that coins do not do so, but from an old collection. I myself collect – not ancient coins, but medals of the 19th century from all over the world. I do not have a single invoice, because I am not a very organized person: it is my private pleasure, medals do cost between 50 and 150 Euro – and this is not an amount I keep records (I also do not keep these invoices of my cloth and they often cost more).</p><p><br /></p><p>If a policeman accused me of buying something on the internet and if a house search was made in my home, you could confiscate all of them – because they are older than a 100 years and I do not have a single invoice for them – at least this is the way German police now acts (they have secured coins from the 19th and 20th century in Jena).</p><p><br /></p><p>What makes me so angry is the fact that Mr. Laufer uses his personal predominance as policeman to enforce his personal interests (and we know that he is very keen on archeology). The problem is that German mentality (and I hate to say that) tends to believe more in a policeman in an official position than to a person accused. And Mr. Laufer uses this by accusing persons who are blameless – at least from a legal point of view (you may see it in an other way, but that’s what law is for: to have an official position above personal interests). The principles of dealing with portable antiquities, which he has published in his official “Merkblatt”, have nothing to do with German law – but as this “Merkblatt” was made by a police station, other German officials accept that this is true without consulting the law.</p><p>THIS IS WHAT I OBJECT!</p><p><br /></p><p>And I realize from your answer that you are even not able to believe that police is acting that way. As you wrote: “How do you claim it is possible that all the police involved in the “sting” against the 299 were all acting outside German law?” Believe me, it is. – But in fact not all police stations involved made a house search. I know of cases, when a search has been asked for, but the police station just asked the accused to come to the station, to bring the coins and to give his statements, which I think is absolutely correct.</p><p><br /></p><p>But other collectors were confronted with all of the police force Germany has – their home is searched – just imagine, you are sitting before your TV, three policemen ring the bell, enter your home, search it, every neighbor sees it, you go to court, you have to pay a lot of money for an advocate and after one or two years you will hear: the case is dismissed. We have exactly this case now with Mr. Müller from Münzzentrum. And even as court has said that the coin has to be returned, the police station in Usingen keeps it confiscated.</p><p><br /></p><p>Please read the article in the coming MünzenRevue</p><p><br /></p><p>So let me sum up my statement: We may have different opinions on how to reach the best for preserving our testimonies of the past, but I hope that we have the same opinion that every dispute has to be settled within the barriers of a constitutional state.</p><p><br /></p><p>Ursula Kampmann[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in