[Older thread] German States (Teutonic Order): silver 1/4-thaler, ca. 1615

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    German States (Teutonic Order): silver 1/4-thaler of Grand Master Maximilian of Austria, ca. 1615

    [​IMG]

    Obverse: continuous legend: MAXIMIL: DG: ARC: AV: DVX:BVRG: MAG: PRVSS: ADMI:, caped duke standing, long sword in right hand, lion with shield left, plumed helmet right.

    (Translation of obverse legend: "Maximilian, by God's Grace Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy, Grand Master of the Teutonic Order".)

    Reverse: armored and helmeted duke with lance on draped horseback right, 16 shields surrounding, coat of arms of the Grand Master of the Teutonic Order below.

    KM38, silver, 30 mm, 7 g approx. PCGS XF45, cert. #81824095. Ex-Halbedel Münzen und Medaillen, Salzburg, Austria, 5/25/2016 (purchased raw through their MA-shops.com store).

    Note to self, 11/19/16: create photos of new slab and update primary image w/TrueView-based template

    Can a coin have "machismo"? If so, this design certainly would be a contender for that quality. Ever since I saw a massive and rare 1486 Austrian guldiner coin in a museum, I was taken with the basic motif of a mounted and armored knight on horseback surrounded by coats of arms. I'll never be able to afford a guldiner like the one I saw in the museum, but this more modest quarter-thaler piece of a similar design fit my budget. I did see two or three others of this type in slightly higher grade (for significantly higher prices), but this one had the contrasting grey and white toning I like so much on circulated old silver. So despite being in a modest (though acceptable) technical grade, its lower price and higher eye appeal sold me.

    As of this typing, I'm only just beginning to learn some of the history behind this coin. The Teutonic Order sounds colorful and exciting, though I'll confess to you that the Hapsburgs and Holy Roman Empire and pretty much all of Europe in this period seem a confusing, blurry crazy-quilt to me. I'll keep studying, and enjoy this coin for a while. After all, it is through collecting neat old coins like this that I've learned most of what I know about world history.

    Miscellaneous links:
    Larger image
    PCGS cert verification page (w/TrueView image link)
    NGC/Krause priceguide trends
    Original dealer page

    Wikipedia links:
    Grand Masters of the Teutonic Order
    Maximilian III, Archduke of Austria
    Thaler (alternately spelled "taler")
    Guldengroschen (the "guldiner" coins mentioned above by way of comparison)

    When posted here, this coin was part of my "Eclectic Box of 20" collection.


     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
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  3. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

  4. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Damn. That detail. I like it, the horse looks like something undead lol
     
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  5. Zohar444

    Zohar444 Member

  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    This struck me as well. It looks like a vampire zombie horse, but only in the coolest way!

    We have big, beefy men in armor, large weaponry, a lion, an elaborate helmet, and the sinister looking armored horse and his rider charging across the reverse. And then there are all those heraldic shields. There is so much going on here!

    In my opinion, it was only around the end of the 15th century, and really more into the 16th, that the European mintmasters developed enough craftsmanship to finally catch up to the Romans of a millennium and a half before them, and only by the dawn of the 17th century, when this coin was struck, did they reach the high standard of artistry set by the ancient Greeks of the Classical era. The long stagnancy of the medieval period was over, and it's about here that we cross over into the "early modern" age.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  7. Zohar444

    Zohar444 Member

  8. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Sehr Schon!!!!!

    That has got to be the most magnificent coin design ever. Everything about that coin is totally awesome/ great design/ Teutonic Order...great name/ Grand Master...best title ever!
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I suggested to Zohar that he post his full-thaler piece here, even though it totally outclasses my quarter-thaler. It just had to be seen. Both are stunning coins in their respective price classes, of course.
     
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  10. sam_raph

    sam_raph Active Member

    I like the shields on the reverse
     
  11. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I'm going to need you to teach me how to find ones like this when I move to Germany.
     
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    @Zohar444- I believe that last was directed at you.

    I'll give you one tip towards shopping for stuff like Zohar's coin- make sure you have a pretty fat wallet! ;)
     
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  13. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Haha, my wallet is not as fat as I wish it to be. I'm happy to take any advice from you as well :)
     
  14. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

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  15. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

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  16. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    What's the price range for AU-MS for one of these beauties?
     
  17. sam_raph

    sam_raph Active Member

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  18. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

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  19. Zohar444

    Zohar444 Member

    I paid $1400 for mine which I thought was a decent price for the originality/eye appeal. Most come dipped or weakly struck.
     
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  20. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    @brg5658 - dang, there's another sweet one! WTG!
     
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  21. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    As I may have mentioned elsewhere, the quarter-thaler coin in the OP cost me the Euro equivalent of $238.33 when I bought it raw. Add in the costs of PCGS plastic, and that puts me into it for maybe $265-270-ish.

    Considering the awesomeness of the design and the toning on this particular coin, I thought that was pretty good. Lots of "bang for the buck" there.

    No, it's not a full thaler like the big boys posted, but it didn't cost me four figures, either. And even the quarter-thaler is still a respectably-sized coin, being approximately the size of a US half dollar.

    They're ALL nice. :)
     
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