Gassing coins -AT

I wouldn't take any of these coins FOR FREE! Every one is pretty unquestionably AT in my judgment. Who agrees with me about the prevalence of AT coins in TPG plastic (other than just @GDJMSP)? None other than Q. David Bowers. Now who would I believe? QDB or some fellow Pennsylvanian who tries to make a market in toners? Why, QDB, of course! And by the way, yes he DOES specifically call out PCGS by name on this problem, too.

 

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I’d take them for free.
At that price I’d crack them all and send in again to see what happens.

 

The first four proofs look fine, I've seen the packaging do that and the colors very likely aren't that neon under most lighting anyway.

If it's just peoples guesses that determine whats questionable all toning is questionable by that definition.

Just remember anything that can happen in a lab or someone trying to tone things, nature can do as well.

 

And do some of those things just HAPPEN TO happen in your basement?

 

You don’t want to see what’s inside baseball’s basement.

 

The proofs like that from packaging came from questionable sources as well, including being gassed or left in extreme temps/humidity.

Some have also just been swapped in as Proof Sets from the 2000s are easy to open and snap shut.

 

Far to lazy for that. Don't have to anyway. Just need to let mint packaging do it's work or many of the albums/aftermarket cardboard inserts ect.

There's a reason why there's so many threads about how to store coins and so many people using packs, multiple bags, sacrificial pennies ect.

If you don't go to those extremes you can start to see color on some coins. Where you live will impact it as well but you don't have to activity intervene for some of these, all you have to do is not actively try and stop it.

I'm talking about ones that turned under my ownership that had nothing to do with extreme temperatures or gassing.

If you guys consider it AT for not actively doing everything possible to stop the color then so be it, I consider AT to be chemical additions, blow torches, gassing ect.

 

You have accurately stated my position herein. "Benign neglect" is no less AT than a blow torch is. It is all "damage", period.

I repeat, you NEVER see toners other than old proofs and Morgans at major national or regional coin shows. Their market is almost exclusively the realm of Internet online sellers who jealously guard their true identities. Now why do you suppose that is? Hmmm.

 

I haven’t personally experienced any proof sets turning (outside of the 2009 Lincoln Cents with the special copper composition and those looked bad). The ones that I have seen from others that look more legitimate tend to have more splotchy toning and more colors of the rainbow. Perfect concentric toning I have only seen from the Modern Silver Commems (like Olympics Dollars) and PCI toners-which obviously aren’t related to the Proof Set packaging.

 

That makes sense, if you use your own definition though it gets very different results.

This is mostly because the rooster crows the sun rises thing though. Many of the best toners are in strong hands, the overwhelmingly majority of the others realized they make more in auctions or dealing with very specific dealers.

That and you just flat out don't find many dealers that want to deal with moderns at all for anything. It's not a secret modern collectors basically know shows are a waste of their time because they get demonized or looked down on. A lot of modern collectors are younger, not kids but younger and there are countless reasons they prefer online.

Think of your son and his Russian collection. People gravitate towards what they love, but the point is the major shows cater to the old guard which works for them and that is fine.

 

Well, my son (age 23, degree in computer science) has bought literally EVERY coin in his Russian set person-to-person at major shows - ANA, Whitman, FUN, NYINC. He WOULD NEVER buy any coin online. There is simply no reason for him to assume that level of risk. Yes, I do buy some things online, and he will too someday. But EVERY coin I have bought online is from somebody with whom I have previously dealt with in person before buying online.

There simply is NO SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES that could get me to deal with any regularity online.

 

I really do not understand this level of paranoia, but okay. 99% of my purchases are online, and 99% of those transactions have absolutely no problems.

 

I need to feel and understand that there WILL BE NO PROBLEM before I even plunk down my money in the first instance. I have encountered far too many err, umm, "artistes" when it comes to photographing coins. I ABSOLUTELY NEED to see every coin in-hand, tilted and swirled under the right light, with a magnification that I choose. Until I can do that online, I ain't a-playin'. And keep in mind, I buy almost exclusively RAW coins.

 

I’m going to say most of those silver eagles were in old holders and gassed. After that they were sent back to PCGS for new holder and true view while the coin is still already in PCGS plastic. The graders never see the coin again but it gets new plastic and a true view.

 

Your not alone Kurt. I am the same way. I am not gonna fall down that blind rabbit hole that leads to trusting the TPG's opinion.

 

When I read these young whipper-snappers write that THEY trust Internet sellers, what I HEAR is they want everyone to trust THEM. I don't, so don't try it with me.

I know enough dealers who trade in both realms and every one I know puts their "junk" or lesser material on the website. Please. Why would I go there?

At Baltimore a few weeks ago, I was shown stuff by one dealer who put it aside for me. It NEVER was on his rather voluminous print ads, much less a website. The more advanced a collector becomes, the more he needs a personal relationship with dealers, whether he knows it yet or not.

One of my good friends, Carl Waltz, Jr., basically won't consider a Matte Proof Lincoln unless it has Angel Dee's approval. And Carl wins regularly with his MPL's. At Chicago ANA in, I think it was 2013, he had one of his coins in Platinum Night in the Heritage sale. It had its OWN PAGE. He cleared a $40,000 profit on that one coin.

 

Or you can learn how to read the photographs and predict what the coin will look like in hand. And if you can’t get a good read (eg. Lighting drowns out luster), then don’t buy.

 

It is precisely THIS truth that MADE ME swear off dealing over the Internet. I find I can't get a good enough read for me from ANY photographs. Oddly enough, I get accurate photos now myself, since I bought my 'scope, but not from virtually anyone else. I CAN also get "glamour shots" of my coins, but that's not what I'm going for. Now why should I trust anyone online? Therefore, I choose not to, and I don't NEED the Internet. I can literally go see great coins in my hand nearby about 35-40 weeks out of 52 each year.

The only reason I don't is I like to eat and have a roof over my head too.

P.S. Even in Stacks Bowers catalogs, I look at their pictures and their coins in the lot viewing room, and to me, they are not valid equivalents. And those are real pros.

 

Your loss