Gassing coins -AT

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. MeowtheKitty

    MeowtheKitty Well-Known Member

    What do you think of the quarter Meow found yesterday CRH? https://www.cointalk.com/threads/toned-atb-quarter-any-good.326762/#post-3231906
     
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  3. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Very likely never. People like toned or they like blast white or they like both. Nothing anyone else does it going to change what most people like. Most of the toned people don't really care how a coin toned anyway, if you can get great colors leaving a coin on your window ledge more power to you. The final product is what really matters and the gassing ect isn't going to get the right look that commands the massive premiums.

    Not to mention all the fancy packaging that the mints are and have been using for a while have been known to tone coins, sometimes very quickly.

    ASEs tone much differently than other series. They're basically pure silver with the others are not. They very rarely get a grade higher than 67 anyway, the market is deciding their value on it's own without the grade impacting it.
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It doesn't have anything to do with fear Paul, it only has to do with facing up to and admitting reality.

    As to your ability to determine the authenticity of toning, you could be every bit as good at it and even better than the TPGs and it still wouldn't matter. As a matter of fact, given some of the obviously AT'd coins that the TPGs slab, I'd readily agree that you are better at it than the TPGs. But it still doesn't matter. That's because when coins are artificially toned by people who know what they are doing, the result is 100% indistinguishable from natural toning by anybody because the toning is caused by the exact same things.

    The only difference between AT and NT is intent, and the speed at which it happens. Other than that they are exactly the same.

    And no, I'm not talking about the guys who pour chemicals on top of coins or bake coins in potatoes and the like - even a novice can identify those. I'm talking about people who know what they are doing. And with their products, you can't tell one from the other and neither can anybody else.
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  5. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    If what you are saying is true, that ATing coins that are indistinguishable from NT is easily accomplished, the toner market would be saturated with such coins and the premiums associated with such coins would all but disappear. You know, supply and demand!

    The truth is that even the best coin doctors don't have a 100% success rate and if they submit the coins to the TPGs directly, they run the risk of exposing their operation to the the TPGs. In order to operate a successful AT scam, you first need to have the ability to recreate NT toning patterns, which is extremely difficult despite you assertion that it is easy. Second, you need a network of associates to filter the AT coins to the TPGs before they enter the market. And that may be more difficult than the actual AT process as it requires multiple people with compromised ethics and dilutes the profits.

    Again, you simply ignore how difficult it is to run an AT scam past the TPGs and continue to fear monger on this issue.
     
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  6. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    It is not permeable enough to equalize pressure in the short span of a flight. Cheap water bottles are not even permeable enough to do that. Plus the pressure differential is likely not enough to cause any harm to the plastic anyway.
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Here is a coin I knowingly bought from a dealer who artificially tones his coins. None of his toned coins were certified by the top four, and they all had the same general appearancd (BIG red flag!). In-hand, the color progression is right because the toning job followed the chemistry and physics of toning, but it too uniform and did not have any elevation chromatics.

    I listed it as AT when I purged my collection, but it still went for double what I paid for it. That just goes to confirm what has been said above that people are just wanting the color without caring how it got there.

    58CB2A8B-A484-48F4-8F0B-72186E37A454.jpeg D47A46FF-81FE-4316-BAFE-334BB08DA76E.jpeg

    Color progression to compare with:

    C42BE889-ED6D-4129-8CD2-0E93341028A1.jpeg
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  8. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Both toned and blast white coins have had their peaks and low points, but I’d agree that neither will completely ever fall out of favor. The final product is what matters and if it looks nice, then people will pay a premium. Even the obvious AT coins that are “artistic” get bid up. However, it’s not accurate to say that gassing won’t lead to high premiums. When edynamicmarketing began his gassing operation, several of his items (mainly modern Proof coins) were bought and resold for large premiums via other big toner sellers on eBay (including some that went for several hundred and all the way up to a toned 2000s era Cent for $1,000).

    ASEs do tone differently. Even knowing that, a significant amount of obvious AT ASEs have passed by. And the grade does matter as the 69 toners sell for more than the 65-67 ones.
     
  9. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I agree but disagree with you. Something happens to people when coins like this are offered. They know that rainbow toned coins can generate huge premiums, especially for a series like WLHs. So while deep down they know they shouldn't gamble on questionably toned coins like this one, the possible payoff is such that they can't resist the urge to make a quick buck. The other alternative is that you have inexperienced buyers who can't separate AT from NT who bid up the price of this coin.

    I don't know what premium you paid, or how much of a premium twice your buy price is, but what I do know is that dramatically rainbow toned Walkers sell for many multiples of price guide. If people truly didn't care about NT vs AT, they would pay the same money for raw toned coins as they do for graded toned coins, and that just isn't the case.

    The bigger question I have is, why would you buy from a guy who ATs his coins? What I'm saying is that you know better. Were you doing an experiment? And while this coin might have the correct progression of yellow-magenta-cyan, you correctly pointed out the absence of elevation chromatics, and that blue color is a big red flag IMO. I have no doubt that if this coin, or any other from that dealer were submitted to the TPGs, they would be details graded for questionable color.
     
  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Here is just a small sampling of straight graded ASEs that have photos available.

    Could have some of these happened naturally? It’s possible, but the majority appear questionable at best and not because they were gassed in the holder.

    36924BBA-337C-42CF-9D9E-294C771080A9.jpeg 2DA59F5B-9A74-4290-BFD8-5A816C7082F2.jpeg 0DDE430F-5520-434F-82DD-DC6F36AEB0D3.jpeg 725833D1-BFF6-4CF2-A6C4-1A9E8A87D551.jpeg 1CA2F776-C3C0-45A0-BBA1-F9F8FFE11AB1.jpeg 54491356-29D4-4D8F-8BF0-9F36A7E34603.jpeg 7F1FE1A2-B354-4FFD-9729-0C016F8D2E22.jpeg
    24686230-BB84-427E-806E-C810145D33A1.jpeg E826B703-7C60-43BF-985F-04E96E212DD9.jpeg
    68A545CE-2018-4A46-830D-6EC4EA081516.jpeg
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  11. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    This one looks legit, could be an EOR.
     
  12. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    That’s the one I also thought looked most natural. However most Eagles are stored in mint or aftermarket tubes (they did have different tubes from the mint in earlier years, but they were all plastic). Most of the Eagles coming from those tubes tend to still be white. Now if we were talking about Mexican Libertads, that would be a different story as the early years came in paper rolls.
     
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  13. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I paid no premium for the color, so I didn’t care that it was AT. I wanted a toned 1943 WLH for cheap to put into a type set album, and this one fit the bill.

    I listed it as AT with a starting bid of $1. Where it went after that was completely out of my control.
     
  14. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Why does the guy AT his coins and then sell them for no premium? I just don't like buying coins from people like that and rewarding their bad behavior.
     
  15. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Once the grading companies decide that toning is damage, (no matter how pretty) that will end the AT market.
    A silver coin with prominent toning, eventually will turn black.
    (Unless stored as well as possible.)
    And so, the toning is just a stage or degree of damage before it turns black,
    which is damage.
     
    Legoman1 likes this.
  16. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    And every toned coin they have previously graded would be eligible for their grading guarantee; it will never happen.
     
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  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I was saying more as a comparison to other toning premiums such as the Morgans that pick up thousands of dollars or more from color, or the 100k franklin ect.

    Which was exactly my point. The 69s are much harder to find in toned ones than normal ones. They generally drop the grade for the toned ones unless it's exceptional

    I don't think it's any secret at this point that people are storing them in ways hoping for them to pick up toning.
     
  18. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921


    Wow...... LeHigh is on FIRE today! First all the hilarious puns, and then........


    A savage ROAST for the encore!!!! Legendary.
     
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  19. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    He tried selling them at a premium, but he gave up and listed them for piddly pip.
     
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  20. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Lol, now that makes me smile!
     
    1916D10C likes this.
  21. Legoman1

    Legoman1 Active Member

    I don’t think gassing is the only method. If you want a toned coin, dip it in the geothermal water at a hot spring. Just don’t try to sell it on eBay!:D
     
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