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<p>[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4525992, member: 110350"][USER=99554]@Ocatarinetabellatchitchix[/USER], after I saw your question to [USER=74968]@Orfew[/USER] in the "Death of Constantine the Great" thread about whether he knew anything about how Jesus Vico, S.A. acquired the ex-Dattari coins sold back in 2017, I tried to find out what I could through Google. It seems that Jesus Vico auctioned the coins in at least four different groups: Auction 147 in Madrid on 9 March 2017 (approximately 320 Roman coins from the Dattari Collection), Auction 148 in Madrid on 8 June 2017 ("more than 200 roman coins from the Dattari Collection"), Online Auction 3 in Madrid on 18 September 2017 ("More than 180 Roman Coins from the Dattari Collection") (the one in which my coin was offered as Lot 245), and Auction 149 in Madrid on 18 November 2017, with a pdf catalogue available at <a href="https://www.jesusvico.es/Img/149/catalogo-149.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.jesusvico.es/Img/149/catalogo-149.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.jesusvico.es/Img/149/catalogo-149.pdf</a>, which appears to have offered another 150+ coins from the Dattari Collection. The Dattari Collection coins for sale at the first three auctions can all be seen at <a href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=103&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na&p=1;" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=103&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na&p=1;" rel="nofollow">https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=103&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na&p=1;</a> <a href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=146&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na;" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=146&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na;" rel="nofollow">https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=146&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na;</a> and <a href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=162&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=162&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na" rel="nofollow">https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=162&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na</a>, respectively. Most, if not all, appear to be Roman Imperial coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>So that's more than 850 Dattari Collection Roman coins that Jesus Vico offered, minus the overlap, if any. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything, either in the catalogs or elsewhere, explaining how, from whom, or when Vico obtained them. </p><p><br /></p><p>I did find an interesting thread about the Vico sale of Dattari Collection coins in a Polish coin forum, at <a href="http://forum.tpzn.pl/index.php/topic,11403.0.html?PHPSESSID=4192bafc535d930f105d97983cd60728" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://forum.tpzn.pl/index.php/topic,11403.0.html?PHPSESSID=4192bafc535d930f105d97983cd60728" rel="nofollow">http://forum.tpzn.pl/index.php/topic,11403.0.html?PHPSESSID=4192bafc535d930f105d97983cd60728</a>. As translated by Google Translate, the thread was entitled "Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection," and here are some translated excerpts. The first post at least hints that Jesus Vico obtained the coins from the family or its representatives, describing the dealer as having been "entrusted" with part of the collection for sale.</p><p><br /></p><p>"Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection</p><p>« On: 18 June 2017, 21:18:53»</p><p>Barnabas</p><p><br /></p><p>Today's very interesting discussion between Tomek and Mr. Lech encouraged me to start this thread as part of the classic thread "coins for NOT IN RIC".</p><p><br /></p><p>Both gentlemen had slightly different visions about whether the following coin went down expensive or cheap:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3784&category=88613&lot=3095595" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3784&category=88613&lot=3095595" rel="nofollow">https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3784&category=88613&lot=3095595</a></p><p><br /></p><p>However, on one point, both gentlemen agreed: the great Dattari collection (which, among others, the above-mentioned coin belonged to) is sold by the auction house Jesus Vico SA in a tragic way. I would like to join these laments and words of outrage.</p><p><br /></p><p>For the sake of order below, I indicate a link to a short biography of this famous collector:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.socnumit.org/doc/Numismatici/DATTARI_Giovanni.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.socnumit.org/doc/Numismatici/DATTARI_Giovanni.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.socnumit.org/doc/Numismatici/DATTARI_Giovanni.pdf</a></p><p><br /></p><p>As you know, the Alexandrian part of Dattari's collection has been cataloged (although the word catalog may be a bit exaggerated, it's rather a collection of tables). The Roman (imperial) part of his collection has unfortunately never been described or cataloged. It could and should have been expected that the auction house, which will be entrusted with this part of the collection for sale, will prepare a professional catalog, with a beautiful cover, extensive introduction, great photos of all (individual) coins and reliable descriptions of all coins, and that of course the entire auction (or even the next few auctions) will be devoted exclusively to the Dattari collection. Unfortunately, the Jesus Vico auction house did not meet any of the above-mentioned - seemingly - elementary expectations.</p><p><br /></p><p>What's more, this "auction house" at auction No. 147 in March sold out the whole large group flights of coins belonging to the Dattari collection (sometimes counting several dozen or even several hundred pieces), without mentioning that these coins are from the Dattari collection 'ego, let alone photos of individual coins, and even more so their descriptions. This is not just barbarism but sheer stupidity. After all, they would simply earn more if they did not sell coins from this collection on group flights, but individually, or if they at least let them know in the description that they were Dattari coins and some decent photos of these coins attached (even group, but both obverse and and reverse)!</p><p><br /></p><p>Well, it's very sad and stupid. On the other hand, since they gave bodies all along the line, it was not appropriate not to take advantage of this opportunity. In this way I purchased a significant part of the Aurelians and Probus buses of this collection. These coins are properly described in my gallery on FAC. Therefore, I added my little brick to cataloging this wonderful collection. I hope that other collectors will do the same.</p><p><br /></p><p>greetings,</p><p><br /></p><p>Barnabas</p><p><br /></p><p>Tomanek</p><p>A: Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection</p><p>« Answer # 1: 18 June 2017, 21:44:59»</p><p><br /></p><p>Holy words, the Jesus Vico auction house collapsed the Dattari collection very badly. They have been very nonchalant about selling this rich and meticulous collection for years. Sell quickly and have peace. This can be clearly seen in short, laconic descriptions. This collection she really deserved to carefully develop and emphasize her wonderful provenance. Mass flights without a reliable description and relevant photos. No metric data, even these most valuable specimens, this all indicates total sloppiness.</p><p><br /></p><p>On the other hand, as noted by Barnabas, poor emphasis on the origin of coins and lack of proper presentation, probably contributed to lower prices. A little more work, a decent catalog and you can it was to pull prices up. Well, for us, for geeks hunting this type of plaque, it's probably and better, that the ad did not work and you could at least some of the coins try to reach with your finger.</p><p><br /></p><p>It is a pity only for this wonderful collection and Dattari's work that everything has been irretrievably dispelled without cataloging. Sad...</p><p><br /></p><p>Lech Stępniewski [of the <a href="http://www.notinric.lechstepniewski.info/index.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.notinric.lechstepniewski.info/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.notinric.lechstepniewski.info/index.html</a> website]</p><p>A: Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection</p><p>« Answer # 2 on June 18, 2017, 23:51:22»</p><p><br /></p><p>Quote: Barnabas on 18 June 2017, 21:18:53</p><p>Therefore, I added my little brick to cataloging this wonderful collection. I hope that other collectors will do the same.</p><p><br /></p><p>I also added a small brick and a handful of these non-narratives from volumes VI and VII (if I spotted all of them), saying that it was "Ex Dattari". I also archived some other photos because, as you can see, there are also rare coins listed than 3/4 unlisted ones.</p><p><br /></p><p>But what has spilled will not gather again. The Dattari collection is no longer there.</p><p><br /></p><p>I understand that publishing a decent paper catalog would have to be a monumental, long-lasting and expensive undertaking. But at least the minimum variant could be expected: that is, a proper photographing, measuring, weighing of EVERY coin in this collection and uploading this material to the internet.</p><p><br /></p><p>Fortunately, at least the photos are generally good. But as you noticed, only part of the coins received the grace of a separate counterfact.</p><p><br /></p><p>PS. The grammatical Gestapo instructed me, under pain of severe punishment, to write Giovanni Dattari, without apostrophes."</p><p><br /></p><p>. . . .</p><p><br /></p><p>Too bad it was all handled in such an apparently sloppy way. At least there's a record of the Dattari coins offered, at the links I provided above.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 4525992, member: 110350"][USER=99554]@Ocatarinetabellatchitchix[/USER], after I saw your question to [USER=74968]@Orfew[/USER] in the "Death of Constantine the Great" thread about whether he knew anything about how Jesus Vico, S.A. acquired the ex-Dattari coins sold back in 2017, I tried to find out what I could through Google. It seems that Jesus Vico auctioned the coins in at least four different groups: Auction 147 in Madrid on 9 March 2017 (approximately 320 Roman coins from the Dattari Collection), Auction 148 in Madrid on 8 June 2017 ("more than 200 roman coins from the Dattari Collection"), Online Auction 3 in Madrid on 18 September 2017 ("More than 180 Roman Coins from the Dattari Collection") (the one in which my coin was offered as Lot 245), and Auction 149 in Madrid on 18 November 2017, with a pdf catalogue available at [URL]https://www.jesusvico.es/Img/149/catalogo-149.pdf[/URL], which appears to have offered another 150+ coins from the Dattari Collection. The Dattari Collection coins for sale at the first three auctions can all be seen at [URL]https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=103&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na&p=1;[/URL] [URL]https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=146&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na;[/URL] and [URL]https://www.biddr.com/auctions/jesusvico/browse?a=162&s=dattari&aso_price_currency=EUR&o=na[/URL], respectively. Most, if not all, appear to be Roman Imperial coins. So that's more than 850 Dattari Collection Roman coins that Jesus Vico offered, minus the overlap, if any. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything, either in the catalogs or elsewhere, explaining how, from whom, or when Vico obtained them. I did find an interesting thread about the Vico sale of Dattari Collection coins in a Polish coin forum, at [URL]http://forum.tpzn.pl/index.php/topic,11403.0.html?PHPSESSID=4192bafc535d930f105d97983cd60728[/URL]. As translated by Google Translate, the thread was entitled "Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection," and here are some translated excerpts. The first post at least hints that Jesus Vico obtained the coins from the family or its representatives, describing the dealer as having been "entrusted" with part of the collection for sale. "Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection « On: 18 June 2017, 21:18:53» Barnabas Today's very interesting discussion between Tomek and Mr. Lech encouraged me to start this thread as part of the classic thread "coins for NOT IN RIC". Both gentlemen had slightly different visions about whether the following coin went down expensive or cheap: [URL]https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3784&category=88613&lot=3095595[/URL] However, on one point, both gentlemen agreed: the great Dattari collection (which, among others, the above-mentioned coin belonged to) is sold by the auction house Jesus Vico SA in a tragic way. I would like to join these laments and words of outrage. For the sake of order below, I indicate a link to a short biography of this famous collector: [URL]http://www.socnumit.org/doc/Numismatici/DATTARI_Giovanni.pdf[/URL] As you know, the Alexandrian part of Dattari's collection has been cataloged (although the word catalog may be a bit exaggerated, it's rather a collection of tables). The Roman (imperial) part of his collection has unfortunately never been described or cataloged. It could and should have been expected that the auction house, which will be entrusted with this part of the collection for sale, will prepare a professional catalog, with a beautiful cover, extensive introduction, great photos of all (individual) coins and reliable descriptions of all coins, and that of course the entire auction (or even the next few auctions) will be devoted exclusively to the Dattari collection. Unfortunately, the Jesus Vico auction house did not meet any of the above-mentioned - seemingly - elementary expectations. What's more, this "auction house" at auction No. 147 in March sold out the whole large group flights of coins belonging to the Dattari collection (sometimes counting several dozen or even several hundred pieces), without mentioning that these coins are from the Dattari collection 'ego, let alone photos of individual coins, and even more so their descriptions. This is not just barbarism but sheer stupidity. After all, they would simply earn more if they did not sell coins from this collection on group flights, but individually, or if they at least let them know in the description that they were Dattari coins and some decent photos of these coins attached (even group, but both obverse and and reverse)! Well, it's very sad and stupid. On the other hand, since they gave bodies all along the line, it was not appropriate not to take advantage of this opportunity. In this way I purchased a significant part of the Aurelians and Probus buses of this collection. These coins are properly described in my gallery on FAC. Therefore, I added my little brick to cataloging this wonderful collection. I hope that other collectors will do the same. greetings, Barnabas Tomanek A: Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection « Answer # 1: 18 June 2017, 21:44:59» Holy words, the Jesus Vico auction house collapsed the Dattari collection very badly. They have been very nonchalant about selling this rich and meticulous collection for years. Sell quickly and have peace. This can be clearly seen in short, laconic descriptions. This collection she really deserved to carefully develop and emphasize her wonderful provenance. Mass flights without a reliable description and relevant photos. No metric data, even these most valuable specimens, this all indicates total sloppiness. On the other hand, as noted by Barnabas, poor emphasis on the origin of coins and lack of proper presentation, probably contributed to lower prices. A little more work, a decent catalog and you can it was to pull prices up. Well, for us, for geeks hunting this type of plaque, it's probably and better, that the ad did not work and you could at least some of the coins try to reach with your finger. It is a pity only for this wonderful collection and Dattari's work that everything has been irretrievably dispelled without cataloging. Sad... Lech Stępniewski [of the [URL]http://www.notinric.lechstepniewski.info/index.html[/URL] website] A: Sad fate of the Giovanni Dattari collection « Answer # 2 on June 18, 2017, 23:51:22» Quote: Barnabas on 18 June 2017, 21:18:53 Therefore, I added my little brick to cataloging this wonderful collection. I hope that other collectors will do the same. I also added a small brick and a handful of these non-narratives from volumes VI and VII (if I spotted all of them), saying that it was "Ex Dattari". I also archived some other photos because, as you can see, there are also rare coins listed than 3/4 unlisted ones. But what has spilled will not gather again. The Dattari collection is no longer there. I understand that publishing a decent paper catalog would have to be a monumental, long-lasting and expensive undertaking. But at least the minimum variant could be expected: that is, a proper photographing, measuring, weighing of EVERY coin in this collection and uploading this material to the internet. Fortunately, at least the photos are generally good. But as you noticed, only part of the coins received the grace of a separate counterfact. PS. The grammatical Gestapo instructed me, under pain of severe punishment, to write Giovanni Dattari, without apostrophes." . . . . Too bad it was all handled in such an apparently sloppy way. At least there's a record of the Dattari coins offered, at the links I provided above.[/QUOTE]
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