From A to Z, and Orange to Yellow

Dear Bob
you are mistaken, it is red earthen patina, this comes from many places, I have tens of thousands with such patina, if you would like to contact me privately , I will send you many photos, any coin sold by us and it wasent stated it has applied patina, and the customer find other wise , he will get a full refund and will keep the coin for free.
best regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

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indeed it is natural, if you buy it and find other than that, you can keep the coin for free.
best regards.
Athena numismatics

 

yes it does if it was not stated , when a dealer mention the patina to be fake then it is ok, but when I state that it is natural and found not, then a full refund right away with a $50-100 credit.
Athena Numismatics stand behind the coins we are selling.
best regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

Dear all
Red earthen natural patina does exist , I do have tens of thousands of them.
in my new items there are just two coins with fake patina, and it is stated that they have an applied patina, the rest none of them have an applied patina.
the two coins are the Revolt of the Heraclii. 608-610. Æ Follis, and CYPRUS, Koinon of Cyprus. Caracalla. AD 198-217.

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/at..._desc&countitems=30&changeDisplayList=&page=1

I stand behind the coins I offer, if you buy any of the coins and found it has a fake patina, a full refund will be sent to you, and you can have $100 credit .
warm regards.
Salem Alshdaifat
Athena Numismatics

 

Welcome, @Salem Alshdaifat -

While I'm sure many here would appreciate an insight into your inventory and practices, I am sure many still have concerns. In particular, your round of responses did not include a response to this observation:

It is clear from the rest of your inventory which has been presented here, that the exact same coloring is present. So how do you explain a clear example of patina tampering in the same color as many of the rest of your coins?

My apologies if my post sounds accusatory, but I am very curious to hear your answer.

 

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The full refund offer is commendable.

My only other reply to these recent posts will be to quote a great philosopher and starship engineer:

"Aye. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."

 

No apologies , that coin we bought from the

Dear Bob
I am not taking focus away from what you mentioned , the photo of coins you put from my store have natural patina, only if I state in my store other wise .
I respect your concern , a full refund plus $100 credit is not commendable, we do examine the coins we get for the past four years and make sure if we find that the patina is applied we mention it, most of the coins coming from Israel has such patina, and it is annoying to us as it is to collectors .
I am not here to argue , but here to make it fare by saying my word.
it is the collector right to ask, and it is my duty to answer .
with my respect.
Athena Numismatics

 

when we examine the coin and find applied patina we should mention that.
I don't see why you think it is wrong !
regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

no Apologies needed, it is your right to ask.
we bought from many years tens of thousands of coins with such patina, mostly from Israel and Germany.
if you understand the nature from where those coins come then you will understand why they have such patina, the coin you mention was pulled out because at the time even though the applied patina was stated, but we didn't want to make it a big deal.
when you state as a dealer the patina to be applied then it is the collector choice to buy it or don't.

Athena Numismatics

 

Welcome to the forum, Salem! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and allowing us to share our thoughts and concerns with you!

 

Red Spork's explicit example clearly illustrates that the patina on this coin is artificial:





The most benign interpretation is that Athena Numismatics was fooled by the artificial patina and thought it was real. Maybe this is what happened -- any dealer can be fooled once in a while. But if so, wouldn't a conscientious dealer reexamine all such coins in his/her inventory to determine their authenticity? The similarity of the patinas on all the coins in your inventory is staggeringly unlikely to be natural.

With regard to refunds for less-than-genuine coins: While this is a necessary requirement for being an honest dealer, it's not sufficient. As an ancient coin collector, I want to rely on the expertise of the dealer from whom I purchase -- not do his job for him.

Again, the most benign interpretation of this statement is that you've purchased tens of thousands of coins with artificially applied patinas from Israel and Germany, and should more thoroughly research your suppliers, rather than accepting at face value the obviously false representations made by at least some of your suppliers.

The collectors on this site tend to be a very open-minded and forgiving group, but your responses in this thread don't inspire a lot of confidence in your coins nor in your willingness to question your sources and correct your mistakes.

 

We surely do examine our coins, and we are more carful for the past three years or so, even though sellers will not take a coin if we change the status of it by cleaning it, but we don't care, we do clean them if we suspect the coins and examine the patina, and we get refund for the Applied patinated coins, in some cases we put coins with added patina but we state clearly that the patina is applied .

we go way far behind refund, we give %30 as a credit if we missed that the coin has applied patina and it wasent stated , but in the past three years we didn't have one issue because we do examine the coins very well before they go life in our store.
the tens of thousands of coins, we found around 100 with applied patina and was sent back for a full refund, the rest all examined and do have natural patina.

the mistakes have been corrected , and I stand behind my coins, the source have been questioned and surely I am responsible for my response , all coins in Athena have been examined and all have natural patina except the ones that we state that they do not.

best regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

Thanks Dear Deacon
it is your right to have a concern when there is an issue , and it is my duty to address it and give an answer for your concern.
best regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

What do you accept (from a customer) as proof that the patina was applied?

 

Dear Severus
I accept NGC, Vcoins dealers like Barry Murphy, Zach , dealers who are known to give authentication certificates .
best regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

What if the sandy orange stuff comes off with acetone? Would you still require verification by another Vcoins dealer?

 

I would rather the dealer do the examination on the coin.
this thread is about me being honest on what I put in my store, and would like the dealer to get the coin as it is shown in my store without any alteration .
warm regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

I would rather the dealer do the examination on the coin.
this thread is about me being honest on what I put in my store, and would like the dealer to get the coin as it is shown in my store without any alteration .
warm regards.
Athena Numismatics

 

Thank you for your replies. I must say that I am unlikely to purchase anything from your store with the suspect orange patina if I have to send it off to another dealer for authentication. I also find it hard to believe that the prevalence of this orange colour in your stock, and no other dealer's, has a natural explanation.