From A to Z, and Orange to Yellow

The relevant dealer pledge in the Code reads, "I will vouch for the authenticity of items I sell and will have no time limit on the return of items discovered to be non-authentic."

Fake patinas are just that, fake. They are inauthentic and are meant to deceive. Anyone who has purchased an orange or yellow coin from these dealers should be entitled to a full refund, with no time limit.

By the way, several collectors today referred me to the "New Items" folder of Alibaba Coins which is, I believe, a relative newcomer to VCoins. Upon seeing that I wrote immediately to Zach Beasley (VCoins managment).

I requested - and perhaps some of you will be inclined to echo this request? - that a prohibition against applied patinas be explicitly stated in (added to) the Code.

 

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In my case the coin is altered not by the addition of anything but removal of details, making it appear to be a rare variety. I've submitted evidence to the dealer but I don't expect to hear back until at least next week. I don't believe the dealer had anything to do with it in this case, it was likely an honest mistake, but I'll be interested to see how it plays out. I've yet to actually encounter a situation where I had to ask for a return like this but hopefully it will simply result in a full refund as you suggest.

 

Any relation to the Chinese counterfeit commercial giant Alibaba/Aliexpress?

 

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Here's an distressing update. It seems Z's shenanigans have now progressed beyond the bronzes. For your consideration, seven AR drachms of Orodes II that Z just listed.

Bear in mind: these are currently posted at the V mall. I guess Code of Ethics be damned.

I don't think this needs much pointing out to the folks here, but look at repeating details and wear.

View attachment 625881

 

Not cast fakes, the flans are all different.

Could be transfer die fakes but I don't see the tell tale signs of that?

 

Thanks for posting this, Bob! I'm speechless! Is it possible that he could have seven coins from the same die? I think the dealer needs to do some explaining!

 

Been bouncing a few thoughts back and forth with posters in another forum. I wrote this there:

"Not sure of the method of manufacture here. But I can say this: finding die matches among Parthians is a task. I've spotted them on occasion across auction catalogs (spanning years) and across some dealers' listings. Even then, it's usually an obverse or reverse match, not both. When a notorious dealer has seven drachms listed simultaneously with crescents identical, legends/script identical, etc., it raises red flags for me.

Could he have acquired them from a collector who spent years searching out coins with these particular die matches? Or could they come from a single hoard, having been struck at the same time and having remained together during the time of their circulation? I suppose. But sure seems unlikely to me."


So, could these be legit? I guess. But knowing of this dealer's past, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable purchasing any of them.

 

I agree the only realistic way 7 die matches are together now is they were minted together, kept together, then buried together in the same hoard. So how would they aquire circulation wear?

 

I'd certainly follow your advice since you know these types and that gut reaction is very important.

 

A very fair question. And remarkably similar wear at that:


I suppose the wear could be in the die...

 

Bob, this is fascinating and alarming! May I suggest that you create a new thread for this with a new title so as to get more collector’s attention. Just a thought.

 

a good thought, but as long as there is some activity on this thread, most peeps will look at it. it has stuck in my mind that any coins with orange or yellow patina get the flag automatically now, then i refer back to this thread for the names of the now infamous dealers.

 

Where there is a doubt, there is no doubt (thanks for posting this dude's crap coins)

 

Just wanted to provide some closure with regard to this latest mini-Z-drama. The feeling on some of the other boards seems to be that the coins above are pressed "die transfer" fakes with the identical wear accounted for by the wear of the host coin from which the dies were made.

In any event, here's the update: at the directive of Vcoins management, Z has been forced to remove all of these Orodes II fakes. Score one for the good guys.

 

I think it is time Vcoins step up and remove "Z" as a dealer. I recall in about 2012 that he was involved in a scandal with someone else's coin and was removed from Vcoins as a result. Somehow he got reinstated, was busted in the fake "desert patina" episode of a few months ago. Now this. When is enough enough already?

 

I have asked him about a few coins that he had placed up recently which were all "uncleaned" silver but from modern dies. I stay well clear.

 

I think these two sellers really compromise Vcoins credibility as an ethical marketplace. By allowing the sellers to remain Vcoins is telling customers that they value the business of fraudsters over collectors.

Even if forced to comply, why would anyone want to buy from these two dealers?

 

Does anybody know if Z's antiquities are legit?

My brother has purchased a few and is now concerned about their authenticity.

Thanks,

Erin

 

Look at the headband on Orodes II. You can see tiny little pockmarks from the casting process. Looks like the original coin was used to cast some dies, and then the dies were used to strike the flans.

As a matter of fact, the entire surface looks weird. Plus any dealer who doesn't suspect all those "die matches" in the first place is either gullible, careless, or in on the fraud himself. I honestly don't care to find out which one he is. I will not buy from him, and V-coins is seriously hurting their reputation with me by tolerating this stuff.