From A to Z, and Orange to Yellow

even their logo has acquired the patina....

 

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@Bob L., great info you have provided, much appreciated, thanks!

 

Well it is "one of a kind" if you think about it. You're never going to find another yellow or orange coin like that. Next up is the color blue, these were found in the deepest oceans where the coins soaked up the blue from the sea. Wait, does that sound believable?

 

From Vcoins support:


"Thanks for the note. I've received a couple of help desk tickets about this posting and I will address it with the two dealers."

 

Thank you for this post, Bob L. I have definitely wondered about the patina issue with both of these dealers. I've purchased 5 or 6 Judaeans from Mr. and Mrs. Zurquieh two years ago. Yes, they had the desert patina. I immediately sent them to NGC for certification and encapsulation (this was during my slab happy period.) Anyway I requested conservation services from NGC which includes a gentle cleaning to remove foreign residue. When the slabs came back the dusty patina was greatly reduced.

 

I'm curious as to how many collectors on this site prefer a "sand" patina (assuming it's natural and not artificially applied) over the underlying patina that would normally be green or brownish?

Personally, I dislike sand patinas -- not that I would turn down a coin I wanted if it had this type of (natural) patina, just that I prefer bronzes with other patinas.

What are everyone else's preferences for this type of patina?

 

Never bought sand patinas from these two in this thread.

I actually like sand patina, they can be attractive. I have a few of them. Now are they all natural? Not sure. I feel they are, acetone didn't remove any if it when I they arrived when I got them.

But I welcome them as I would any other patina.

I actually think I might have more coins with fake, regular patinas than sand.

 

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edited

 

I like a natural sandy patina but not those that look spray painted. I wonder what the fake patina is hiding, pits etc. Would you want to pay the same price for the coin once all the blemishes are uncovered? If the coins are nice before the patina is applied, why would you put a fake patina on it?

 

A real sand or earthen patina in white, green, blue or other color can be very attractive but it is hard to say if it is real or a modern fake.

20 years ago I bought some desert patina coins from Israel if I remember correctly. Their patinas are powdery and irregularly colored. Nothing like the shiny hard patinas on coins I have gotten from these two sellers.

 

Salem is notorious for adding fake "earthen" patina (he has some good material, though).

 

Another very, very small sampling of AE's (as compared to the many hundreds of pics still online from past sales) from these two dealers, below. With 176 pages of “Sold Items” at Z’s store, and 22 pages of them at A’s store, I could literally compile dozens of these comparison charts. But obviously there is no need. The image at the start of this thread says it all - and each new chart would look pretty much the same. I think that every newbie to ancient coin collecting should peruse those “Sold Items” pages – along with the current inventory. It would be time well spent.

Thanks, all, for the comments posted on this thread.

 

I love my coins yellow or orange also, but look for river patinas instead

 

Here is mine from Zurqieh lol

 

A bit of an update here. Those of you who took the time to register complaints/concerns with VCoins about this have had some impact, it seems. Both dealers have been called out by VCoins management (Zach Beasley). As of yesterday, according to one of the regulars on the CCF board, Zuqieh had replied to management:

“Now, for newly listed coins, we will add to the description of each coin, a note stating the condition of the coin whether it's as found or if any other added sand, soil etc. And with time we will add this to old stock step by step.”

The cynic in me recognizes that he can say whatever he pleases to cover his tracks. He can claim that all the coins are “as found” to deny responsibility for the obvious work done to many of the AE’s in his inventory. However, I will state this: He did just upload a bunch of small Elymaeans today, and they were free of applied patinas. The description of each stated, “Coin is professionally cleaned.” They looked genuinely nice. I take this as a hopeful sign. He also uploaded a lot of Judaeans this week, each saying “Coin is as found with original patina and soil.” Now, these may have been “enhanced” – they each have an identical grayish/yellowish patina – nothing like the garish yellow-orange I associate with his work. So whether the new ones have been worked, I can’t say for sure.

We should stay vigilant and see what his future additions look like. If he strays from the straight and narrow, he should be called out again.

As for Athena: As of yesterday, VCoins management still had not heard back from him. He only uploaded a few AE's this week, all of which had at least some of the orange stuff. Here's the one with the most even coverage:



The description states "Lovely natural red earthen patina." Amazingly, happens to look just like thousands of others he has posted through the years. I suspect he will still have to be watched carefully...old habits are hard to break.

 

As red as I can get.

Didrachm of Kanishka.

 

Is it a bad sign if it can be scratched off? Think i read something to this effect once. I actually bought a Gelimer monogrammed nummus from Zuqieh several months ago that has some of that yellow sand patina. I had suspicions about him but I (I'm sure mistakenly) thought the coin was too small (8-9 mm) and thus not worth the hassle to tamper with. But this thread made me take the coin out and scratch the sand patina on the edge and with a bit of force I managed to scrape a bit off.

 

This is a very informative thread and I'm glad I read through it. Thank you @Bob L. I have done a bit more research and come up with the following links to add to this discussion if anyone is interested. Apparently this is not a new concern and still hasn't been addressed.

http://www.ancients.info/forums/archive/index.php?t-643.html

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=93245.0

 

So I have a question for those knowledgeable about Vcoins' policies. I know that a dealer must offer full refunds and returns for authenticity but where does alteration fit into that? If one were to buy one of these coins or a coin with some other undisclosed alteration, would Vcoins require the dealer to allow a return? I'm asking because I'm in this situation right now and have not yet heard back from the dealer and am not sure what I should expect.