Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
From a place that's not frequently mentioned at CT
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Curtis, post: 24628220, member: 26430"]Ah, this is a great coin! A great things about Roman Provincial coins is that there are so many mints (over 350?), even if you've heard of them all, you're sure to forget some before the next time you hear them named!</p><p><br /></p><p>But this is one that I remember, for a couple reasons, below.... (Pardon me for having already recently shared them both.)</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Two Questions</b>:</p><p>RPC lists yours as the first of the 78 types it has for Blaundus: <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/3059" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/3059" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/3059</a> of <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?q=blaundus" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?q=blaundus" rel="nofollow">https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?q=blaundus</a> . Do you happen to know if this is actually the first type (or from the first series of issues) struck at the mint? (It looks that way. Would be very cool!)</p><p><br /></p><p>And, do you know if there is any particular local significance to Apollo Kitharoidos for the city? (In some places, like Troas, Alexandreia, there were important temples/cults for Apollo Musaegetes...and Smintheus, Apollo the Mouse Slayer! Seriously. Maybe similar here.)</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Here's why I was already interested in this particular type:</p><p><br /></p><p><b>One, these Blaundus AEs look so similar to Nero's early coins of Phrygia, Eumeneia.</b> Not only on the obverse portrait. The reverse style: both share a standing god (Apollo/Zeus), holding his symbolic object (Lyre/Labrys), and a mix of vertical and curved text in the reverse legend (incl. Magistrate name).</p><p><br /></p><p>Here's my Nero Eumeneia that I just bought:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1566252[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><i>Also, whose collector tag is that in the middle?</i> Not Lockett & Vermeule (who passed it along). References 1887 ed. of Head's <i>HN</i>. Lockett bought it from Lincoln (London dealer).</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1566253[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>At first, I wondered if Blaundus & Eumeneia could've shared dies or engravers. (Not dies, it turns out: "Blaundian" Neros are as Caesar, "Eumeneian" Augustus, at least in RPC. But Kraft, <a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/42666477" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/42666477" rel="nofollow">Johnston</a>, and <a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/26637382" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/26637382" rel="nofollow">Watson</a> did mention Blaundus when discussing Asia Minor cities involved in "die-sharing." I don't remember which reigns or with which partner mints.)</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><b>The second reason I like these Blaundus Neros: Apollo Kitharoidos</b>.</p><p><br /></p><p>That design appears on Roman Provincials from other mints and for many emperors (Claudius before him, and, after him at Blaundus alone, Vespasian, Hadrian, Antoninus Aurelius, probably others).</p><p><br /></p><p>BUT, it has a particular significance for Nero. As Suetonius famously described, Nero (later, as Augustus) had statues commissioned of himself as Apollo with Lyre/Kithara, and even had coins struck with himself portrayed as Apollo playing. [USER=83956]@Gavin Richardson[/USER] started an interested thread on the type(s): <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/self-portrait-with-nero-as-apollo.395197/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/self-portrait-with-nero-as-apollo.395197/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/self-portrait-with-nero-as-apollo.395197/</a></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/ellithorpe-2017-page-9-nero-apollo-cithara-png.1465537/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><b>NOT my coin: </b><i>Fig. 5 on page 9 of Ellithorpe (2017) Circulating Imperial Ideology (UNC Dissertation) [<a href="https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/concern/dissertations/fn106z80m" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/concern/dissertations/fn106z80m" rel="nofollow">downloadable from UNC</a>] = <a href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=206543" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=206543" rel="nofollow">CNG EA 276 (21 Mar 2012), Lot 379</a>.</i></p><p><br /></p><p>The present type from Blaundus is too early for us to say that Apollo on the reverse represents Apollo. That interpretation is usually reserved for the Roman Imperials of similar design. The Blaundus version, however, appears to be the first coin of Nero what that reverse imagery. Could it have given him some ideas?</p><p><br /></p><p>There are Provincial types, however, whose reverses can, in my opinion, be identified with some confidence as Nero-in-the-guise-of-Apollo Kitharoidos. The types from Thessaly, in particular:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/bcd-nero-thessaly-koinon-apollo-lyre-kithara-bronze-ex-cng-e-490-e-325-jpg.1465459/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1439" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1439" rel="nofollow">RPC 1439, example 25</a> = Burrer 1 (A1/R1) = this coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>The historical context was that Nero had just finished his great musical tour of the Greek Games, playing and orating at every festival he could. He had also just "liberated" Achaea (of which province Thessaly was a part, then). Though despised by the elites of Rome, the Greeks loved Nero, and surely wished to flatter him with these coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>In case it wasn't clear enough, they took the extra step of depicting Apollo radiate on this type -- another of Nero's personal affectations (he is also shown radiate on the <i>obverse </i>of another coin from Thessaly in this series, <a href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1440" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1440" rel="nofollow">RPC 1440; ex. 7 = my coll</a>).</p><p><br /></p><p style="text-align: center"><i>So... to summarize it with a math equation:</i></p> <p style="text-align: center"><b><font size="5">Nero Blaundus = Nero Eumeneia + Nero Thessaly - a couple years</font></b></p> <p style="text-align: center"><b><font size="5"><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></font></b></p><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Curtis, post: 24628220, member: 26430"]Ah, this is a great coin! A great things about Roman Provincial coins is that there are so many mints (over 350?), even if you've heard of them all, you're sure to forget some before the next time you hear them named! But this is one that I remember, for a couple reasons, below.... (Pardon me for having already recently shared them both.) [B]Two Questions[/B]: RPC lists yours as the first of the 78 types it has for Blaundus: [URL]https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/3059[/URL] of [URL]https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?q=blaundus[/URL] . Do you happen to know if this is actually the first type (or from the first series of issues) struck at the mint? (It looks that way. Would be very cool!) And, do you know if there is any particular local significance to Apollo Kitharoidos for the city? (In some places, like Troas, Alexandreia, there were important temples/cults for Apollo Musaegetes...and Smintheus, Apollo the Mouse Slayer! Seriously. Maybe similar here.) Here's why I was already interested in this particular type: [B]One, these Blaundus AEs look so similar to Nero's early coins of Phrygia, Eumeneia.[/B] Not only on the obverse portrait. The reverse style: both share a standing god (Apollo/Zeus), holding his symbolic object (Lyre/Labrys), and a mix of vertical and curved text in the reverse legend (incl. Magistrate name). Here's my Nero Eumeneia that I just bought: [ATTACH=full]1566252[/ATTACH] [I]Also, whose collector tag is that in the middle?[/I] Not Lockett & Vermeule (who passed it along). References 1887 ed. of Head's [I]HN[/I]. Lockett bought it from Lincoln (London dealer). [ATTACH=full]1566253[/ATTACH] At first, I wondered if Blaundus & Eumeneia could've shared dies or engravers. (Not dies, it turns out: "Blaundian" Neros are as Caesar, "Eumeneian" Augustus, at least in RPC. But Kraft, [URL='https://www.jstor.org/stable/42666477']Johnston[/URL], and [URL='https://www.jstor.org/stable/26637382']Watson[/URL] did mention Blaundus when discussing Asia Minor cities involved in "die-sharing." I don't remember which reigns or with which partner mints.) [B]The second reason I like these Blaundus Neros: Apollo Kitharoidos[/B]. That design appears on Roman Provincials from other mints and for many emperors (Claudius before him, and, after him at Blaundus alone, Vespasian, Hadrian, Antoninus Aurelius, probably others). BUT, it has a particular significance for Nero. As Suetonius famously described, Nero (later, as Augustus) had statues commissioned of himself as Apollo with Lyre/Kithara, and even had coins struck with himself portrayed as Apollo playing. [USER=83956]@Gavin Richardson[/USER] started an interested thread on the type(s): [URL]https://www.cointalk.com/threads/self-portrait-with-nero-as-apollo.395197/[/URL] [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/ellithorpe-2017-page-9-nero-apollo-cithara-png.1465537/[/IMG] [B]NOT my coin: [/B][I]Fig. 5 on page 9 of Ellithorpe (2017) Circulating Imperial Ideology (UNC Dissertation) [[URL='https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/concern/dissertations/fn106z80m']downloadable from UNC[/URL]] = [URL='https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=206543']CNG EA 276 (21 Mar 2012), Lot 379[/URL].[/I] The present type from Blaundus is too early for us to say that Apollo on the reverse represents Apollo. That interpretation is usually reserved for the Roman Imperials of similar design. The Blaundus version, however, appears to be the first coin of Nero what that reverse imagery. Could it have given him some ideas? There are Provincial types, however, whose reverses can, in my opinion, be identified with some confidence as Nero-in-the-guise-of-Apollo Kitharoidos. The types from Thessaly, in particular: [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/bcd-nero-thessaly-koinon-apollo-lyre-kithara-bronze-ex-cng-e-490-e-325-jpg.1465459/[/IMG] [URL='https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1439']RPC 1439, example 25[/URL] = Burrer 1 (A1/R1) = this coin. The historical context was that Nero had just finished his great musical tour of the Greek Games, playing and orating at every festival he could. He had also just "liberated" Achaea (of which province Thessaly was a part, then). Though despised by the elites of Rome, the Greeks loved Nero, and surely wished to flatter him with these coins. In case it wasn't clear enough, they took the extra step of depicting Apollo radiate on this type -- another of Nero's personal affectations (he is also shown radiate on the [I]obverse [/I]of another coin from Thessaly in this series, [URL='https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/1440']RPC 1440; ex. 7 = my coll[/URL]). [CENTER][I]So... to summarize it with a math equation:[/I] [B][SIZE=5]Nero Blaundus = Nero Eumeneia + Nero Thessaly - a couple years :)[/SIZE][/B][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
From a place that's not frequently mentioned at CT
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
