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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Drusus, post: 211002, member: 6370&quot;]**warning, Long Rambling Post**</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It wont rust. Many collector look on artificial toning in the same way more modern coin collectors look upon cleaning. They dont like it, in fact they hate it. Many will also say that electrolysis on a coin is a sin as it robs the coin of its natural patina and will, more often then not, reveal a pitted ugly surface under the patina. Some coins are all patina, taking it off pretty much destroys what little detail there is.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Some coins wont be as badly pitted as others but collectors on the whole want a coin with a natural patina and many have said if you are not willing to do the work to manually chip away and clean the coin, its better to leave it as it is for future generations and those willing to do the work.... <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Like was said above, you would think a dealer will tell you if a coin has been cleaned but the fact is the BEST often will not...maybe they will if it has artificial toning and they know it for sure but in my experience they do not say so...probably in some cases they either dont know or just havent examined the coin close enough...One dealer for example is forum ancient coins. I have bought maybe 3 coins that have been obviously cleaned to the metal. They were cheap because of this, but there was no mention that it was stripped...I assume they were cleaned but who knows...maybe he assumes that if you see a 2000 year old coin that has no toning or patina that you KNOW it been stripped that and the low price. I am in no way critisizing the forum or any seller...but I will be honest when I say I see VERY FEW coins that mention if the coin has been cleaned to the metal (this is obvious) or if it has artificial patina.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>There are ways to clean a stubborn coin like the ones mentioned here...and it isnt just sitting it in water or oil and scrubbing it here and there or zapping it. You have to get your tools out and manually pry that crud off the coin and it takes a lot of time. Electrolysis is the quick easy way, you can clean it in minutes but you take EVERYTHING off if you dont do it right. When you do it the manual way, you often have to scrape and its almost like sculpting the crud until you hit patina. You need to do it under bright light and magnification and scrape and chip.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Even using electrolysis you dont have to strip the coin, even museum use the method but they use a VERY low charge and do not ZAP the coin...They will sit a hundred coins in a tank and low charge it until it loosens some of the crud and then manually clean it...when you are using a jerry rigged charge in a small bowl with no way to control the charge its almost always a strong charge, people will often leave it in until the whole thing is pealing away, etc...that is why, like cleaning your own modern coin, the advice to cleaners is, just dont do it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I am not condemning liberty for what he has done, its his coins and he can do as he pleases, certainly many would say he just ruined 2 ancient coins that obviously had great detail under the crud, they would have liked to see him pick that crud off instead and without doubt if he were to sell them without informing the buyer he faked a tone or patina, he would be ripping them off unless he sold them for basement prices <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>As with cleaning moderns, I do not judge. Its his coins and who is to say what he should and shouldn&#039;t do. Just know that when you clean ancients...and although I am not an expert, I have cleaned hundreds, that it is often much more than just soaking and scrubbing, it also often means manually picking, scraping and prying that crud off...often times the soak is just to help loosen it up a bit...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Also, when you have coins like that...boil them a bit...the heat will make the coin expand, might crack the crud and give you leverage to pry without making it expand so much to crack the patina. If you MUST zap the coin...use a rather large container and keep your coin as far away from the other wire with your metal chunk as possible and if you can, use something that will allow you to send the weakest possible charge. Zap it for just a very small amount of time then soak again and scrub and pick...dont leave it in to be zapped to the point that you see the crud and patina just peeling off...unless that is what you want to do. I am not overly picky and I end up getting cool cheap coins because of zappers <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Like this coin I bought from Forum:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/aurelian01.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If I remember correctly it did not say it was cleaned to the metal...but without doubt it was...though it has not patina...the portrait is GREAT in my opinion and I got if for cheap:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/aurelianface01.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I would rather have the coin cleaned to the metal and let it redevelop a natural patina then to have a fake one applied.</p><p>This coin was simply coated with black hard crud...it was like it was encased in rock...It took me a lot of work but look what an outstanding blue green patina was sitting under the rocky crud...to me this is a fine coin with a natural patina that I worked for half a year, soaking, chipping, soaking, scraping, chipping, etc...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/constantiusII.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>now for the bad</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>a coin over cleaned with a mixture of vinegar, salt, and flour made into a paste and soaked far longer than it should have been (and it shouldn&#039;t have been in the first place.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/bad.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>color is off, it actually turns the metal pinkish</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/bad2.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This is a postumus issue of Constantine I decided to zap...it simply ruined it...I didnt strip it all the way, so now it looks even worse...I only zapped it briefly and very low voltage but for some reason, maybe since it had been scrubbed and cleaned for months, the zap just made the patina fall away in an ugly spotty way with just a light hit. this is what it looked like after just manual cleaning:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.cachecoins.org/constantinepostumus.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I should have left well enough alone, kept soaking and scrubbing until that thick green haze thinned out a bit...I am a bit ashamed I ruined such a nice little coin and swore never to zap again. Although I have had successes zapping, after ruining these 2 coins with 2 harsh cleaning methods..I decided to just do the work and wait the time...<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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