France: copper specimen striking of a 10-centime pattern (essai), 1848

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    @lordmarcovan
    Joseph Francois Domard, 1792-1858, entered the Ecole des Beaux-Arts in 1810. He won the second Grand Prix for medal engraving in 1813, and his period of greatest activity was from 1824-1837. It is interesting to note that Domard submitted patterns for all of the new coinage of the Second Republic in 1848, but all were rejected except for the copper currency.

    It's a pretty coin, but I noticed when I enlarged the obverse, there looks like there are two letters, "NA" scratched above the designer's name. Is that on the coin or the plastic?

    Chris
     
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I think those are perhaps random marks that coincidentally look like "NA". They can't be that severe, or there's no way PCGS would've given this the SP65 grade. It would have "details" graded if there were really graffiti there. (Besides, that graffiti would be so tiny that it's difficult to imagine someone squinting through a magnifier to do it, surely?)

    However, they can't be on the plastic, either, since PCGS Secure / Trueview images are done prior to encapsulation.

    I'll have to check that out when it arrives. I told Atlas to take their time shipping it due to the present hurricane uncertainties here.

    Thanks for the background on Domard. I would've eventually Googled that sort of thing up myself, but hadn't, yet.
     
  5. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Chris likes his French art. I hope that "NA" is a trick of the lighting with some slab scratches. Otherwise wonderful coin! I have no patterns or anything like that so I can't post 'm.
     
  6. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I garnered the info from "Biographical Dictionary of Medallists - 500 B.C. to 1900 A.D." by Forrer. It's an 8-volume compendium with 5,200+ pages. There was a lot more information about Domard, but I considered this the most pertinent.

    Chris
     
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  7. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    funny how my 2004 Krause values it at only $100.00 . sweet coin for sure.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No longer own them of course but I used to own these. The second one was always my favorite of the two :)


    1848 5 franc essai obv.jpg 1848 5 franc essai rev.jpg 1848 10c essai obv.jpg 1848 10c essai rev.jpg
     
  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Yes, these have gone up quite a bit in the years since 2004, I gather.

    I bought a couple of white-metal 1848 5-franc patterns in old small ANACS PR63 holders- quite awesome designs- for $200-ish apiece at the FUN show sometime around then (2004-2006-ish).

    Though this piece is a pop. 1 coin at PCGS, I see Heritage sold an NGC 63 in January of 2014 for $258. Considering that coin was a 63 and this one is a 65 with far more spectacular toning, I am content with the price I just paid.

    That little "NA" anomaly @cpm9ball pointed out does bear further examination when I have this piece in hand (I told Atlas to take their time shipping it since I was fleeing a hurricane), but I don't think it will amount to much. Surely PCGS would not have 65-ed it if there were really graffiti there. And it is not plastic scratches, since the TrueView images are done before the coins are encapsulated in plastic at PCGS. I expect it may be just a few stray marks that were picked up by the lighting and coincidentally look like graffiti.

    The PR65 CAM 3c piece in my Box of 20 has such a mark at the top of the obverse which shows in the pictures, but in hand is only visible with a loupe, at certain angles to the light. (You can even see that mark, to the left of the word "OF", if you squint at that coin on the far right in my signature line image.) Such can be the case on early proofs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  10. Aethelred

    Aethelred The Old Dead King

    All of a collector's time, energy and effort could be devoted to these French patterns. They are beautiful and apparently not very expensive as a bonus.
     
  11. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    Awaken saysme. :D
    This thread was linked to another is why it was revived.
    Just wondering about the initials/scratches. What were they ?
     
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    There were some very, very faint hairlines, there, but they were practically invisible to the naked eye, only at certain angles to the light, and were not any kind of graffiti. Obviously PCGS did not consider them noteworthy as far as the grade went.
     
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