Found my first Fleur de Coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Mrktstrtmyhm, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    I don't know the full relationship, but Roma sells Lanz coins in their auctions and advertises for them.
    Here's more examples of what Lanz does to coins https://numismaticfakes.wordpress.com
     
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  3. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    "Bloom (or flower) of the minting die" is another translation of FDC. Either way, a more poetic term than MS!
     
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  4. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    I see nothing there about Lanz. Maybe if you linked to a specific post?
     
  5. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

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  7. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Most welcome. Pretty frustrating seeing the levels forgers are willing to go to, up to and including destroying ancient rarities:yuck::depressed:
    When I was a kid guilty by association was assumed. Not much changes.
     
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  8. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Are there not esteemed dealers on this forum that buy and resell from Lanz?
     
  9. ByzantiumBabe

    ByzantiumBabe Member

    Whether "bloom" "flower" "mint" or "die" it is not the coin nor a reliable grade convention. Neither is MS, for ancients.

    Many have no problem with the term "fleur de coin" as poetic license used to freely heighten the effect of an ancient coin, without having to actually describe its relevant details. Experienced collectors can see through the rhetoric. As innocent as the terms might seem, all beginning collectors should be aware the metaphor can be used as a distraction from the facts and is often used to ignore the usual rules of grading, to perhaps proclaim a better result.

    Don't get me wrong, a love poetry, think ancient coins are poetic, but also heed what Plato warned about the Poet.
     
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  10. HAB Peace 28 2.0

    HAB Peace 28 2.0 Business, is business. Supporter

    I speak French as a second language. “Fleur” in general obviously means flower. But in French it has kind of a broad meaning. It can mean bloom or even gem? In this case it’s referring to it being uncirculated or better than circulated? Je dirais :happy: ?
     
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  11. HAB Peace 28 2.0

    HAB Peace 28 2.0 Business, is business. Supporter

    Oui c’est vrai.
     
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  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    FDC, for some dealers, seems to be nothing more than what lawyers like to call mere "puffery" when they're defending their clients against claims of false advertising.
     
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  13. ByzantiumBabe

    ByzantiumBabe Member

    Do you mean something like "Fleur de Flynn" where the razzle dazzle serves as Billy's modus operandi to make the case a distraction so that the jury loses attention?
     
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  14. savitale

    savitale Well-Known Member

    You might not like it but this is one of the arguments for third party grading. Currently one dealer's Extremely Fine is another's FDC. Tooling, smoothing, and all that is identified only if the auctioneer chooses to look closely and then chooses to disclose it.

    Yes, there are still some disagreements over grades of certified US and World coins but those are splitting hairs compared to how it used to be.
     
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  15. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    I don't think they would be esteemed if they bought and resold from Lanz. Lanz had a good name a long time ago. He sold out and now his company sells forgeries and tries to pass them off as legit. Yes, some of their less expensive items are probably legit. But as has been said, is it worth always wondering if the one you bought from a crook is legit? Not to me.
    Or was this a joke and I totally missed the mark?
     
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  16. ByzantiumBabe

    ByzantiumBabe Member

    A female French friend of mine tells me "fleur" is often used in France to label anything one feels is beautiful, regardless of its condition.
     
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  17. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    This one from Kunker was graded "stempelglanz". In hand under 5X magnification....its perfect. I would consider it FDC. 8f8c4c46eb1094ac1e5f9e68db9c3212.jpg
     
  18. ByzantiumBabe

    ByzantiumBabe Member

    The original dies, as noted by Mr. Clay, appear to be a "flower of the mint" dies and engraved by a master artisan.

    The coin is over the top & in extremely fine condition, but in hand one might find slight die cracks in the obverse legend, an obvious punch to Valentinians nose, maybe a small pin hole in the right obverse field. Most concerning would be an X graffiti above the cross on reverse, but tough to verify in a photo. The gold also appears to be professionally cleaned, recently.

    Byzantine coin borders are often illegible, but some like to see at least most of the well executed Byzantine borders, as well.
     
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