Forgery or Printing Error?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by jamor1960, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    My instinct says altered. But anything is possible.
     
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  3. Searcher64

    Searcher64 Member

    Many today will remove the print on the $1.00 paper notes and then print a larger valued [$50.00, $100.00] to them to pass on as a real note.
     
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  4. gsalexan

    gsalexan Intaglio aficionado

    If the serial number were genuine it would not be a single digit like that. It would be 000001.
     
  5. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    I think we can agree the “1” is genuine. The question is what happened to other digits. Never there or removed?
     
  6. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    Sorry, didn't have anytime to do it over the weekend, I'll look with my loupe and try to take some close up pictures of the serial number area asap.
    Life gets in the way of pleasure sometimes. :confused:
     
  7. gsalexan

    gsalexan Intaglio aficionado

    My vote would be removed. It defies belief that something could have accidentally blocked the printing of all the other digits exactly the same way in two locations.
     
  8. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    Under inking of the plate could definitely have caused this. Not saying that is what happened, but it is possible.
     
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  9. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    To bad about the writing on the corner but still an interesting piece :)
     
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  10. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    Here is a similar note with insufficient inking error. The OPs note has no seal while this note has some of it. But this bill is proof that it can happen!
    F3AAEAF4-7C9B-4917-82A5-0AF07EC117C0.jpeg
     
  11. gsalexan

    gsalexan Intaglio aficionado

    :wideyed: This calls for more research!
     
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  12. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    More research is what I did! These are the closest pics I can get with my phone, so i dont know if you'll be able to blow them up clearly enough to see, but there are, very light, numbers visible. I confirmed this by looking at the note with my loupe.
    So, what does this say? I'm still not sure. If you look closely at the note Magic Man posted, you can see #s on it too.
    So, I guess my next step is to, 1- watch the responses here and 2- take it to my local coin store to see what they think. I will keep you posted.
    Jim :cool:
    20200928_203339.jpg 20200928_203339.jpg 20200928_203315.jpg 20200928_203315.jpg
     
  13. gsalexan

    gsalexan Intaglio aficionado

    I took this over to another forum for discussion and, yes indeed, Jersey Magic Man hit on the correct cause of this error, and I'm now convinced that it is genuine. It took some 'splaining for me to grasp what led to the single digits, but here is how it lays out:

    Imagine the serial number wheels printing both sets of numbers on the notes. The last digit rolls around once every 10 times (01, 02, 03 ... 09, 10, 11). All the numbers to left of it print every time. Now imagine the green ink font runs dry but the press keeps feeding sheets of notes. The seal and the left-side numbers will quickly run out of ink and fade away. But the last digits on the cylinder still have ink remaining on them and the 1, for instance, only prints every 10th rotation. So this final number in both positions will be the last digit to run out of ink and fade.

    Make sense?
     
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  14. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    Yep, it makes sense. Hopefully I'll have time to take it to my LCS tis weekend.
    Thanks!
     
  15. gsalexan

    gsalexan Intaglio aficionado

    Very few dealers will have much expertise in this particular type of error. You will need to send it to a TPG for a definitive answer.
     
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  16. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    Did you actually see green inked numbers or just the impressions of numbers. Since the serial numbers are letter press printed, and not intaglio, they will leave impressions in the note. Sometimes you can even feel the impressions (inked or not) by running your fingers over the serial number.
     
  17. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    Very, very light images, but not for all the numbers. If you blow up the picture you posted it looks the same.
     
  18. BJBII

    BJBII Metrologist, CSSBB

    My inclination is to say a mint error.
     
  19. SteveInTampa

    SteveInTampa Always Learning

    Coins are from the Mint. Paper currency is from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. Definitely not a Mint error.
     
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  20. jamor1960

    jamor1960 The More I learn, the Less I know....

    Alright ladies and gentlemen! I have just returned from a visit to my LCS....after having observed the bill, in hand, the consensus is....(drum roll please...)
    It is a printing error!!
    However, it was suggested that I come in when the resident error expert there to get his opinion. However, he is only there on Saturdays, when he feels like coming in. LOL
    So, if I'm able to tomorrow, I'll call and see if hes theres and take the bill down to let him take a gander.
     
  21. George McClellan

    George McClellan Active Member

    Cointalk is making me think too hard, again!:nailbiting:
    01, 02, 03 ... 09, 10, 11... ...21, 22, 23, ... 29, 30, 31:D
    Okay!
    Given that the number on the right, the "one", prints every tenth rotation...:bookworm:
    The number on the left, "the two", prints every tenth rotation...
    ...but only on the tenth rotation... one tenth of the time. Right?:blackeye:
    ... and a conceivable "3"... 321,322,322... :stop:
    ... only one tenth of one tenth of ten rotations... I'm losing it!:eek:
    This is too hard! I can't think any more!:dead:
     
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