For those who buy on Instagram

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Seascape, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Seascape

    Seascape U.S. & World Collector

    So I have been experimenting with my new Instagram account. Already 1 of my dealers that I've purchased from on another unnamed platform found me and reached out. Informed me he has pcs that I can purchase for less on Instagram from him. Trusting him is not an issue. But his payment methods are:

    Pay Pal f/f
    Pay Pal g/s
    Venmo
    Cash App

    Which do you recommend? I have none of the above. I just have standard PP.

    What is your experience with this?
     
    serafino likes this.
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  3. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    If you have Paypal, you have the first two.

    Paypal F/F is Paypal Friends and Family which carries no fees, and no buyer protection.

    Paypal G/S is Paypal Goods & Services which carries the Paypal fee and affords the buyer protections.
     
    serafino, MIGuy and Matthew Kruse like this.
  4. Seascape

    Seascape U.S. & World Collector

    Who pays the fee w/ g/s?

    Do I ask the seller to send an invoice to the version of my choice? Is that how it works?
     
  5. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer Well-Known Member

    Most sellers will upcharge you for using PP g/s. That's who pays the PP fees, the seller.
    That's where you get protection though.

    Venmo you have zero protection.

    Cash app, not familiar with it. But by the name alone it sure sounds like no protection. Probably because there's no fees there either.
     
    MIGuy and Evan Saltis like this.
  6. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    The seller pays the fee, and the seller will usually state in the listing which method they accept. Personally, I think it is lunacy to buy using PPF&F, but I think I'm in the minority.
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I won't buy from someone who requires Fee less or charges an extra fee for the Paypal transaction fee. eBay charges 8.5% for final value fee, and that is if you have a store, paying the 3.5% Paypal fee is very reasonable by comparison.
     
    Seascape likes this.
  8. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    3 of the 4 have zero protection. PayPal G/S has limited protection and charges fees.

    Do you feel lucky?
     
    Seascape likes this.
  9. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis Student/Collector Supporter

    Cashapp is meant to be peer to peer. I won't touch it.

    I post on Instagram more now than ever. Plus you pick who you see, so no need for an ignore button.

    Lots of giveaways, swap opportunities, and quick sales. I started a coin account in November 2020 and it's been pretty good for me. Plus it opened up my personal page so I wouldn't just see coins instead of people I know.

    Mine is in my signature on here.
     
    Bradley Trotter likes this.
  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    With G&S (goods & services) you can send the amount or the seller can send you an invoice (and then you pay inside your account). With F&F (friends & family) you would usually send it (although I did find out the other person can also request F&F).

    With G&S, what you see is what you pay and the seller receives that amount minus 3.49% and minus the $0.49 flat fee (so if you send $100 G&S, the seller gets $96.02). With F&F, if you send $100 from your balance, you don't get charged anything and the seller gets the full $100. If you send F&F via your credit/debit card, then you get charged a fee on top of the $100 you send.

    G&S gives you seller protection and is the safest route. Plenty of people use F&F, especially if they know each other but don't feel obligated to do that if you are not comfortable.

    When I've sold, I let the buyer choose whichever option is better for them. I don't tend to upcharge for G&S; instead I have my G&S price and then offer a discount if someone uses any non-fee method (including money orders/checks).
     
    Evan Saltis likes this.
  11. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    If I know the seller and / or am familiar with their reputation, say, for example on Cointalk, I'm comfortable using Paypal friends to save us both money. Haven't had any problems yet. If I am not, however, I wouldn't do it on a bet.
     
  12. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter


    Exactly. It's the web of trust. I know @ddddd and can recommend him as a fine upstanding seller.

    I've seen the same thing at a show. Dealer called across the aisle, hey Mike should I take this guy's check? Mike calls back, "nah, send him to my table and I'll take his check"
     
    ddddd and beaver96 like this.
  13. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Think like anything it depends on the trust/confidence between parties, maybe do a small transfer/purchase and see how it goes, etc. I and my three grown kids/our families have used PPff back and forth to/from each other for years with no problems...fast, virtually instant, convenient, etc. Like anything in life, there's always a risk of some kind, esp nowadays with the computer stuff/hackers, etc. But we've never had any issue with it, and we do amts in the hundreds here/there, spread out across the country.
     
  14. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    It's actually a violation of PayPal's terms of service to use f&f to purchase goods. The excellent protections afforded to both the buyer and the seller with g&s are well worth the small transaction fee, in my opinion. Accepting all sorts of risk to save pennies on the dollar is the very definition of "penny wise, pound foolish".
     
    Burton Strauss III and Lehigh96 like this.
  15. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Bro, you are using PPF&F as it was designed, for family members. I’m talking about buying a coin from an unknown seller, not a chance would I use PPF&F.

    Furthermore, the guys on IG are total clowns. In every single transaction I’ve had as a buyer, I always ask them to send me an invoice. Not once have I gotten an invoice, instead I get a payment request that usually doesn’t even have a basic description of the coin included. Until people starting treating their IG sales as a business, I will continue to be wary of them.
     
  16. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    Zelle's service agreement says it is not for commercial use...

    https://www.zellepay.com/user-service-agreement

    "THE SERVICE IS INTENDED TO SEND MONEY TO FRIENDS, FAMILY AND OTHERS YOU TRUST. YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SERVICE TO SEND MONEY TO RECIPIENTS WITH WHOM YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR OR YOU DO NOT TRUST."

    and

    "You agree that you will not use the Service to send money to anyone to whom you are obligated for tax payments, payments made pursuant to court orders (including court-ordered amounts for alimony or child support), fines, payments to loan sharks, gambling debts or payments otherwise prohibited by law, including without limitation, the prohibited uses described in Section 3 below, and you agree that you will not use the Service to request money from anyone for any such payments."

    and

    "3. Prohibited Uses

    The Service is intended for personal, not business or commercial use. You agree that you will not use the Service to send or receive payments in connection with your business or commercial enterprise."

    which then continues

    "You agree that you will not use the Service to request, send or receive money related to any of the following:

    • Pharmaceuticals and other controlled substances;
    • Illegal drugs;
    • Drug paraphernalia;
    • Firearms, ammunition or other weapons;
    • Sexually oriented activities or materials;
    • Pornography;
    • Obscene or offensive activities or materials;
    • Materials or activities that promote intolerance, violence or hate;
    • Ponzi or pyramid schemes;
    • Illegal gambling, gaming, lotteries or sweepstakes;
    • Traveler’s checks, money orders, equities, annuities, or currencies, including digital currencies, such as bitcoins;
    • Counterfeit materials;
    • Infringement on the copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of Zelle, a Network Financial Institution, another User or any other third party;
    • Terrorist funding;
    • Fraud;
    • Scams;
    • Money laundering; or
    • Any other illegal activity or unlawful purpose."
    So using it to buy coins that are not demonitized is prohibited two ways.


    There was a case recently in the news where somebody used Zelle to pay for something and entered the wrong phone #. The bank told them you said to pay so-and-so phone number we paid. Ask them for the money back, it's not our problem.

    The airquotes "consumer reporter" on the TV tried to make it sound like the bank was doing something shady but in fact they were following the terms of service.
     
  17. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Most people have likely never used an invoice.
    I've sent a few through PayPal but I've rarely had anyone ask for one.
    I also tend to keep things simple on the invoice (usually a one line description that has the year/coin/grade/tpg. It might seem obvious but many people haven't done it before, so I would suggest to communicate what you want to see in your invoice (and point out that you want an invoice instead of a payment request).

    Edit: you might have also ran into a few of the less savvy IG people; there are some I wouldn't buy from but many are ok to work with.
     
    Evan Saltis likes this.
  18. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    This.

    And if people keep on using Friends and Family to pay for Goods & Services eventually Paypal will do away with F&F and then people who use PP to send money to frends or family will end up having to pay a fee to do so.
     
    Lehigh96 and Burton Strauss III like this.
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