For only $135,000.00 and its not real !!

For these who don't know what a fourree is, its an Ancient fake. only $135,000.00 you can buy a Fourree of the Ides of March Denarius. Sweet.



18.40 mm x 3.45g.

 

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I saw that when it was listed on VC. I just viewed it and rolled my eyes and went to another site.

 

An ancient fake!!! Thats so cool, I wonder how ancient fakes are different than the real ones, and modern fakes, and what about the ancient fakes that were made during the midevil era?

 

In this case it's an ancient fake in the sense that it's plated instead of solid silver, however "ancient fake" may not quite be the correct term here. IIRC it's believed that as Brutus was approaching the end of his silver supplies he was actually issuing both fourees and solid silver coins to stretch it as far as possible.

 

If I was looking to buy an EID MAR denarius, I'd want one in solid silver.
There's just this nagging doubt in my mind that this fourree isn't an official issue - although the style is really nice. Fortunately I don't have this problem - at $135,000 it's way out of my price range.

 

really, thats interesting!

 

The ancient fakes were made to pass off as real silver in trade while the modern ones are mainly made as tourist items or to fool collectors,

I think it was not until the late-evil period in the 1500's that fakes intended to fool collectors began to turn up?
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=paduan

 

Still a cool coin that I'd love to have . Now only if I had more money than I knew what to do with !

 

For what it's worth, this coin last sold in May 2015 for $65K (all-in) on a ~$25K estimate.

 

Is carbon dating used to determine an ancient's age?

 

No. Carbon dating is used on carbon-based matter (which was once living).

 

We're still talking about coins here, right?

 

Fouree still means ancient. Fouree is a fake made in ancient times. So it's a 2000 year old fake. It's still ancient. Forgive me for being a history buff, but the history is still there.

 

It´s not that simple. would you call a debased silver coin "fake"? Then how about limes denarii? in both cases coins could be issued by the state as an economic measure.
Even when unofficial workshops produced fouree coins, they were somewhat permited by the authorities.
Of course, there were situations where fourees were simply a forger´s intend to deceipt, but we are not in the position to condemn a fouree as "fake" just by its name. Each case is different.

 

So not only could you not trust Brutus not to plunge a knife into you, but you also could not trust him not to give you a bum coin. That Brutus was one shady character.

 

Metals analysis can be used to rule out some coins. The concentration of minor components in silver available today is different from silver used 2000 years ago. Of course that does not rule out melting or over-striking a lesser value coin.
Unfortunately the machines that do that are 4 or 5 digit $.

 

I take the approach that he, his family, and allies were saving a representative government of a Republic, vs. a dictatorship. Caesar's party wins, creates a dictatorship, and writes history. Had Anthony and his cadre NOT been successful stirring up sentiment for Caesar, perhaps our feelings may had vastly different IMHO. Victors write the history, right or wrong...

 

Saw an article on this today. Boy would I like one of these in my home office / man cave.
https://www.academia.edu/25818129/N...enturies_BCE?auto=view&campaign=weekly_digest

Greg, You should see if these folks will give you a coin demonstration of their toys:

a - Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation, Lucas Heights, NSW 2234, Australia
b - Australian Centre for Ancient Numismatic Studies, Macquarie University, Macquarie, NSW 2109, Australia

 

I disagree. By 44 B.C. the Republic that represented the people was gone, and had been dead for quite some time. Violence had already become a regular part of the political machine, the tribunes had been stripped of their powers to defend the interests of the plebeians, and really not that much changed with regard to the liberty or representation of the average guy on the street when Caesar became dictator. Sure, power was concentrated in one man, but is it truly that different from what was happening previously when power was concentrated in the hands of only a few? The first triumvirate reveals that much. Caesar's dictatorship really only unmasked the fact(which common citizens probably already realized) that the "public thing" was really a "private thing" that did not represent them as a whole. In this light, regardless of the advertising that they attempted to hoist up around if, the actions of Brutus and others look more like a power struggle between rival factions rather than a struggle of the Republic versus autocracy.

 

There are sites on ancient fakes (which are not at all the same as fake ancients). Here is one:

http://esty.ancients.info/imit/

It will tell you a bit about fourrees and has references if you want to go much deeper into it.