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Message:: [QUOTE="19Lyds, post: 971673, member: 15929"]Here's my take on this. Varieties come in two different types. Die varieties (which would include doubled dies and design changes) and Die State Varieties (which would include die changes due to abrading and clashing). Examples of Die Varieties would include the popular doubled dies such as 1955/55 Lincoln, 1974-D Kennedy, etc.Examples of Die State Varieties would include certain PegLeg IKE's and Bugs Bunny Franklins. In 2007, the US Mint introduced the third die which is the edge lettering. That lettering can be imparted to the coin either weakly, partially and not at all. The not at all could be due to mechanical pressure or the coin not passing through the machine at all. Edge Lettering is NOT new and neither are the varieties associated with it. There have been double Edge lettered coins as well as weak and partial edge lettered coins in the past but I don't think the collecting community was aware of it until these presidential dollars came out. I am fully in favor of adopting the missing/weaki/partial varieties for the presidential dollars since it adds a little flair to an otherwise boring coin series but, PCGS needs to be explicit on defining these varieties. I cannot begin to tell how much I've wasted over the years until I finally got confirmation on what constituted what! As for PCGS's current position, I can tell you that it is SPECIFICALLY related to definition (and a little frustration). A collector, who shall remain unnamed, began finding all kinds of double edge lettered coins. These were VERY low population coins which he was able to get included in the Complete Variety Set registry. Early this year, he offered some excess coins for sale and a well know collector purchased one. After the collector received the coin, he examined it only to find that it was NOT a double Edge Lettering Overlapped coin but a coin which had "slipped" in the edge lettering machine enough so that the lettering overlapped itself. PCGS had attributed the coin as Doubled Edge Lettering when in fact it was not. It was "overlapped" edge lettering but not Doubled. The coin, for which a hefty price was paid, was sent to PCGS for examination. The results of the examination is still pending but more than one of these was sold and the very existance of this misattribution has brought all the doubled edge lettering varieties into question. It's not a pretty picture and there is a LOT of money involved all over a simple definition. There are also a lot of "unknown" owners of these misattributed coins which, having paid a lot of money for them, will eventually want someone to pay for the misattribution! In other words, lettering which overlaps itself due to machine slippage does in fact look doubled and by an inexperienced collector "could" be called doubled Edge Lettering Overlapped. However, the experienced collector knows otherwise since a true doubled edge lettering coin should have passed through the lettering machine twice. These coins obviously have not. So, who's on the hook for the lost money? PCGS or the seller that sold improperly attributed varieties? My guess is that PCGS is absolutely defining what these varieties are to avoid future mishaps. BTW, how this stuff got by the graders is a mystery to me but readers must understand that some submitters can be quite persistent and persuasive. I happen to know the submitter of these coins and he's quite convinced that they are Double Edged Lettering coins and will not consider anything else. After all, PCGS attributed them right? As for PCGS's stance, I don't blame them one bit but I must confess that I am irritated since I have a lot of money tied up in these coins. For them to NOT attribute any new varieties is kind of a blessing for those folks who only want to collect the basic coins but there are folks out there that want the basics plus the varieties. I know that with each batch I get, the first thing I look at is the edge lettering. It should be stated that it is PCGS's decision as to what coins get included in what sets. This would not be the first time that a variety got dropped or included in a set where a majority of the collectors of that set weren't a little peaved. The SMS Kennedy is required for the Complete Kennedy Variety set which is kind of a head scratcher since it's not even the same class of coin and really belongs in the Proof/SMS Registry but there's no arguing that position with PCGS. So, at this point in time, we all just have to sit and wait to find out what's going to happen. I'm hoping that the edge lettering varieties that are true error's/varieties are allowed to stay. Specifically "true" doubled edge lettering coins (Adams) and the Missing Edge Lettering coins. Weak and partial are ok but truth betold, any weak edge lettering coin could turn to partial after a couple years of circulation. We just have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]

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