For all new collectors--PLEASE read!!

This is not attempting to put you down, or criticize you for being foolish--on the contrary, it is for purposes of helping all inexperienced collectors not to make serious purchasing mistakes.

We regularly get pictures, on a thread, of some circulated raw coins with the question "Is my coin real, and what would you grade it as?" The general overall situation is usually some grainy photographs of obviously counterfeit, or badly damaged coins, bought on E-bay, or from some dealer who wanted to get rid of junk inventory. This has been said often, but if you are contemplating getting coins in a series that you have NOT studied, PLEASE DO NOT buy raw, uncertified coins, if you don't know what you are doing--read up, talk to collectors, and get friendly with a very honest coin dealer that you can trust. Yes, it is cheaper to buy raw coins than ones in PCGS or NGC holders, but if you don't know the series, you can bet that you will end up with coins that are 1) counterfeit 2) damaged or harshly cleaned 3) overgraded by someone who wanted to get rid of the coin. Please make an attempt to learn about the coin you want to buy, before buying it. Just one experienced collector's advice.

 

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Unfortunally, most purchase coins and then later join CoinTalk to find it's value.

 

I agree one hundred percent!

 

Sadly this is true.

 

While I agree with your concept, three of your four problem areas (damaged, harshly cleaned, and overgraded) apply to EVERY coin series, they are not specific to design, and they require a different kind of study. Counterfeit, yes, is series-specific. But (for instance) what the novice learns about harsh cleaning should apply to every coin he sees for the rest of his life, U.S. or foreign, old or new.

 

I buy plenty of raw coins and only once did I ever end up with one that was counterfeit (I had reasoned that nobody would bother to fake a coin that would only have been worth $15 if real lol... but apparently not all counterfeiters aim high.). I wouldn't ever buy a coin of significant value from someone I didn't know or at least had a decent verifiable reputation in any case; not even if it WAS certified (I recently decided I preferred to buy a raw gold sovereign from a seller with a firmly established reputation than a graded one from someone who didn't even have a double digit feedback score).

I do agree though in coveat emptor (may the buyer beware) and you shouldn't buy ANYTHING, coins or otherwise, if you don't know enough about what you're buying to know whether or not it's worth what you're paying. Always educate yourself about what you're buying before you hand over any money. Don't buy it first then ask people if you got a good deal after the fact; it's too late then!

P.S. To be fair it's not that I have anything against slabbed coins in general; just that I don't like paying extra for a coin just because it's slabbed. When I bought a trade dollar though I wanted to get a slabbed one because they're faked so often; I was more concerned about the authenticity than the grading opinion of the TPG. As far as I'm concerned the opinion of a TPG, no matter how reputable, adds nothing to the value of the coin and shouldn't be paid for by the buyer before the fact. Grading services are meant more for sellers than buyers, IMO.

 

A very reasonable point of view.

"Don't buy it first then ask people if you got a good deal after the fact" -- Bet I've seen this 50 times since I joined a year or so ago!

 

I was fortunate and found this site while i was aquiring a substanial collection of Morgan MS65. there are some real experts (and I don't mean....X being the unknown quanity and spurt being a drip under pressure). I am impressed buy thedepth ofknowledge and street smart attitute that is in my opinion the hallmark of this site!...Thanks to all..you know who you are...James..sorry for six pictures..still learning but I think Conder101 is that guy on the right of centre hee hee

 

Raw [ancient] coins are more fun though! You get to play with them.

Edit: I should probably edit my above sentence since this is a thread for newbies and I feel like someone may jump down my throat for saying it. I put the edit in []

 

Ahhh - but even with ancients you need to know before buying. Or buy from a knowledgeable dealer. You could very well get a counterfeits there also - and yes you can play with ancients. Kind cool holding them an wondering where they been during the last couple thousands of years.

 

Think of it like this - before spending money on something, research the item to figure out if you're spending wisely. Same goes for cars, houses, appliances, computers, etc. It can be all too easy to see something on eBay and pull the trigger only later to learn the coin was overpriced for it's grade, date, and mint.

Coin books are awesome too. You get extra coin nerd time without having to buy coins. Some books have very nice pictures to drool over. Whitman publishes a pretty wide array of books covering most series. They are authored by serious numismatists, wrote in an approachable style, have very nice illustrations or pictures, and are readily available. They'll provide a great starting point and should you decide to delve deeper into the series, you can then search more references. Many books (beyond the Whitman ones) will hold or increase their value over time, as they're typically printed in limited numbers and likely out of print.

As I started getting into military payment certificates the first thing I did was look for references. I'm digesting the lead publications for the series right now and am gaining confidence in selecting what notes to buy. I'm also finding myself drawn to Confederate currency and I already have one book on it's way with another that I'm eyeballing.

 

The only fool-proof way to avoid buying fakes/damaged/cleaned/overgraded coins, whether raw or slabbed, is to stop collecting.

All the things mentioned above will just improve the odds in your favor for the near future, until the next round of technological advancements comes into play.

 

Does certainly not apply to ancients only. I'm in Europe where this slabbing thing is not exactly common. Then again, dealers here that are association members (in DE that would be VDM and Münzenverband) guarantee the authenticity of the coins they sell. Now if I bought at a flea market (including eBay), I would be much more cautious.

Christian

 

The OP seems to be ignoring sellers with stellar photos and coins at or near spot. In my opinion, there is no harm in getting those raw. Sometimes you end up with a pleasant surprise (toning, high grade, substantial value over spot, etc.) Believe it or not, there are many individuals out there that can think for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions, when it comes to their own coin purchases, conscious overpayment driven by want and coin surface analysis.

 

Among my many raw purchases, I purchased a few lots of silver Swiss and German coins from an American collector. All his auctions started at spot and finished near spot. Out of the many coins, only one was cleaned. He gave me a discount on that lot and I traded the coin, since. I let it go at spot and described it as cleaned, of course. The rest of the coins were of non-European quality, meaning they were not cleaned with the silverware every Sunday, prior to me getting them. There were no Shooting Thalers among them, but, they have their beautiful surfaces to this day, in my Air-Tites. I am an amateur where Swiss and German coins are concerned. I have no regrets.

 

From what I have seen coins originating in Europe are less often cleaned than US coins. And 95% of what I deal with are non-US coins

 

I don't agree, I coin shop in Europe. Keep your lucky sources.

 

By any chance are you shopping in Spain and/or Portugal? Those are the exceptions

 

No, I stopped, I don't even like swaps with Portugal due to cleaned coins. Not much experience with Spain, but, Germany, Poland, France and a few others, people there clean their coins more than anyone in the US.

North America is made up of European immigrants and old family habits die hard (ex: Sunday silver polishing). When shopping here, taking the sellers possible background into consideration, judging by the coins he/she has to offer, can be a prediction as to their surface condition. I look for the stellar photos and spot pricing. That does very little damage if a coin does arrive cleaned.

 

Here is part of the Swiss lot I mentioned earlier...